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12-04-2018, 08:45 PM

#11101

vessbot

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jan 2017

Posts: 527

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducttape

CRM is a two way street. So passive aggressively reading the before push checklist during the push is just as bad as not doing it at all. It’s to catch things before the push, not during. So if you are in a position where you are not able to compete this checklist, for whatever reason, you need to ask the CA to hold pushes in the future to do this checklist.

It wasn't passive aggressive in intent, it's just getting the job done while going with the flow so we can move on, as best I can. But some reflection on this thread has led me to think the better way is to let it wait until the CA finishes talking with the push crew (despite that the next instant they'll be telling us we're clear to start the engines, and he'll probably be getting huffy at me not starting the engines right away)

Quote:

Originally Posted by labbats

When I was an FO I felt that my job was to make the Captain’s job as easy as possible.

While that's a great principle overall, it only works if the Captain is trying to do the job right. Those who aren't (the easiest possible for them is if the FO keeps his mouth shut and just goes along with whatever the CA has planned, or not planned) put the FO in a forced choice between making the Captain's job easy, vs. doing his own job right.

Quote:

Most FOs do a good job but in regards to the complaints above most can be traced to an attitude of anxiously waiting to correct me as the Captain instead of using your knowledge to help me. I get zero joy out of pointing out errors of FOs and usually wait out mistakes so they can figure them out. If it isn’t unsafe or against SOPs let it ride.

I don't get any pleasure out of it either, despite how I'm being painted here. When he makes a mistake that's an obvious oversight (like we all make, being human) I simply call it out, he thanks me, and we all move on with our happy selves. If, instead, it's something knowingly against SOP (usually out of laziness or hurry) then I feel it as a burden on myself to have to choose to let the flight keep operating that way, or point out the obvious like a schoolmarm nag. I end up letting a lot of the minor things slide, and pick my battles for the big ticket items. It's tiring and wish I wasn't put in this position! If I was the way you describe, I'd be gleefully awaiting these moments instead.

12-05-2018, 01:57 AM

#11102

TiredSoul

All is fine at .79

Joined APC: Sep 2016

Position: Paahlot

Posts: 3,934

Quote:

Originally Posted by labbats

When I was an FO I felt that my job was to make the Captain’s job as easy as possible.

Most FOs do a good job but in regards to the complaints above most can be traced to an attitude of anxiously waiting to correct me as the Captain instead of using your knowledge to help me. I get zero joy out of pointing out errors of FOs and usually wait out mistakes so they can figure them out. If it isn’t unsafe or against SOPs let it ride.

This too ^^^^^