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Tool of the day

Old 04-17-2015, 09:05 AM
  #6101  
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Originally Posted by freezingflyboy View Post
The FO who insisted that we needed to turn on engine anti-ice AFTER landing while taxiing to the gate in wintery conditions. I humored him and said that "I don't think it's required but it probably won't hurt anything so go nuts if it makes you happy." He continued to insist during the taxi in that on "every jet at every other company, that's what we do!" After we park, I suggest that I had NEVER heard that and that at THIS company on THIS jet, that we do NOT do that and that if the company wanted us to do so, ice protection would be on the after landing and parking checklists. Fellow proceeds to get butthurt.
Interesting...
What does your operations manual/ flight manual say about this?
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Old 04-17-2015, 10:04 AM
  #6102  
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Originally Posted by DENpilot View Post
1. Read your damn manuals.
2. Quit being such an ass.
3. You're wrong. From your post history, you're an xjt CA. Procedures are to turn eng ai on in ground icing conditions.
4. It's scary you're headed to Delta with that attitude.
Who cares if you ice FOD an engine on the way in! He's going with captain's authority here and is more than willing to belittle the FO for trying to save his a**.

Scary indeed.
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Old 04-17-2015, 10:52 AM
  #6103  
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Originally Posted by DENpilot View Post
1. Read your damn manuals.
2. Quit being such an ass.
3. You're wrong. From your post history, you're an xjt CA. Procedures are to turn eng ai on in ground icing conditions.
4. It's scary you're headed to Delta with that attitude.
1. I thought I had. Many times. Turns out I read them but didn't 'read' them. More on that later...
2. Pretty bold statement from someone I've never met. Very brave of you.
3. I would have agreed with you 100% when taxiing OUT in ground icing conditions. I didn't see it referenced on taxi in, the After Landing or the Parking checklist.
4. I agree, luckiest guy in the world RIGHT HERE! And guess what, I've got a metric boatload to learn, even after all these years! Just GD excited for the opportunity!

Originally Posted by Short Bus Drive View Post
Interesting...
What does your operations manual/ flight manual say about this?
Good question Short Bus Drive. From the vitriolic responses here, it would seem that I am the one who is off the reservation on this one so I did some more in-depth investigation. It would seem that most of our "operations in icing conditions" sections are geared towards taxi-out and departure, which makes sense since an engine flame-out at 100 feet in a snow storm is a vastly different animal than a flame-out at the top of the J-line. Lo and behold, separated by nearly a full page and buried in references to takeoff and departure, are these two sentences:
- "Whenever the temperature on the ground is at or below 10C and visible moisture is present, it must be assumed that icing conditions exist."
- "Set the ice detection override knob to ENG any time ground icing conditions are present."

Further on there is one sentence in the After Landing section that DOES say, in part, "For taxi-in follow the same recommendations as for taxi-out." So, it would seem that I am the only one that did not connect these dots. I've been flying this plane for 9 years now, two thirds of that as an FO and it has never come up in the context of taxiing in. Kind of wishing some crusty captain years ago would have slapped young FreezingFlyBoy during his first winter flying the line and said "Son, what the hell you doing!? Trying to FOD the engine? Get that dang ice protection on!" We could have avoided this whole unpleasantness. I stand corrected and ten thousand apologies for any panties that may have gotten wadded. I humbly accept the interweb's nomination as TOTD.

Last edited by freezingflyboy; 04-17-2015 at 10:59 AM. Reason: Added a thought.
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Old 04-17-2015, 11:30 AM
  #6104  
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Originally Posted by freezingflyboy View Post
1. I thought I had. Many times. Turns out I read them but didn't 'read' them. More on that later...
2. Pretty bold statement from someone I've never met. Very brave of you.
3. I would have agreed with you 100% when taxiing OUT in ground icing conditions. I didn't see it referenced on taxi in, the After Landing or the Parking checklist.
4. I agree, luckiest guy in the world RIGHT HERE! And guess what, I've got a metric boatload to learn, even after all these years! Just GD excited for the opportunity!



Good question Short Bus Drive. From the vitriolic responses here, it would seem that I am the one who is off the reservation on this one so I did some more in-depth investigation. It would seem that most of our "operations in icing conditions" sections are geared towards taxi-out and departure, which makes sense since an engine flame-out at 100 feet in a snow storm is a vastly different animal than a flame-out at the top of the J-line. Lo and behold, separated by nearly a full page and buried in references to takeoff and departure, are these two sentences:
- "Whenever the temperature on the ground is at or below 10C and visible moisture is present, it must be assumed that icing conditions exist."
- "Set the ice detection override knob to ENG any time ground icing conditions are present."

Further on there is one sentence in the After Landing section that DOES say, in part, "For taxi-in follow the same recommendations as for taxi-out." So, it would seem that I am the only one that did not connect these dots. I've been flying this plane for 9 years now, two thirds of that as an FO and it has never come up in the context of taxiing in. Kind of wishing some crusty captain years ago would have slapped young FreezingFlyBoy during his first winter flying the line and said "Son, what the hell you doing!? Trying to FOD the engine? Get that dang ice protection on!" We could have avoided this whole unpleasantness. I stand corrected and ten thousand apologies for any panties that may have gotten wadded. I humbly accept the interweb's nomination as TOTD.
Glad you realized your mistake. I flew the very same airplane for what I think is the very same company. If it was snowing or icing conditions after landing, I had the anti-ice on...and this goes for when I was in both seats. Both jets I've flown at the new company...same thing. If it's snowing or contaminated taxiways/runways/ramps after landing, I leave the engine anti-ice on. Keeps contamination from getting sucked in and building up on the engines. Does it hurt to have it on? Is your taxi performance reduced? Hint: I know the answer to both of those questions. I hope you apologized to your FO.
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Old 04-17-2015, 12:09 PM
  #6105  
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Originally Posted by kfahmi View Post
I was jumpseating on a DL 757 a few weeks back and as we were boarding, a passenger stops just inside the entry door, rolls his eyes and says in as loud a voice as he can muster, "God I hate these little tiny airplanes, why can't Delta give us a real god**** airplane."

Seriously?

A 757?

What is wrong with you, sir?

On a separate note, yesterday while working a trip from YVR to LAX in a CRJ-700, a lady got on board and would not stop complaining to the FA during boarding (I could hear all this since the cockpit door was open) that "this airplane is just a puddlejumper. Just a puddlejumper! I paid so much money for my ticket, I want a real airplane" et cetera.

I could not help myself. On the descent into LAX I made the following PA, which sent my captain into fits of laughter:

"Ladies and gentlemen, we've started our descent into LA. It's a nice sunny day, with a temperature of 68 degrees Fahrenheit. We'll be on the ground in 20 minutes. Oh, and as we boarded our flight today, we overheard someone calling this aircraft a puddlejumper. However, this puddlejumper got us to our destination a full 35 minutes early, which we think is pretty nifty. Once again, thanks for flying with us and we'll see you on the ground."

The nice part was that as everyone deplaned I caught the lady's eye and she actually smiled, a bit sheepishly.
I'm pretty sure that did not actually happen. I have a picture of the poster below.

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Old 04-17-2015, 12:25 PM
  #6106  
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Seriously boys if any of these stories are true there needs to be some major ego-checking here.

I have patients tell me before surgery, "remember to wash your hands" or "how much did you sleep last night?" or referencing the latest event in the news involving some bad doctor.

So do I get annoyed and tell them to shut up? No. I usually smile and joke back "oh wow, I nearly forgot" or "whoa, yeah, I should have done that, hope that last guy is ok" or if they are truly nervous just reassure them. It is just a joke. People are nervous an say stupid stuff. Part of professionalism is not being a tool or being mean to your clients / paying passengers. I realize that most of the posts here are just hangar-talk and tall tales but for ****'s sake don't do it in real life or over the PA.

I've flown with guys like freezingflyboy, one CFI of mine was like that and he was promptly fired. He'd make a big deal out of something that was somewhat inconsequential, had a knowledge base like swiss cheese, and liked to argue when he was wrong.

Apologies for the lecture, I guess I'm the TOTD. I've become cranky in my old age.
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Old 04-17-2015, 12:35 PM
  #6107  
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Originally Posted by cardiomd View Post
Seriously boys if any of these stories are true there needs to be some major ego-checking here.

I have patients tell me before surgery, "remember to wash your hands" or "how much did you sleep last night?" or referencing the latest event in the news involving some bad doctor.

So do I get annoyed and tell them to shut up? No. I usually smile and joke back "oh wow, I nearly forgot" or "whoa, yeah, I should have done that, hope that last guy is ok" or if they are truly nervous just reassure them. It is just a joke. People are nervous an say stupid stuff. Part of professionalism is not being a tool or being mean to your clients / paying passengers. I realize that most of the posts here are just hangar-talk and tall tales but for ****'s sake don't do it in real life or over the PA.

I've flown with guys like freezingflyboy, one CFI of mine was like that and he was promptly fired. He'd make a big deal out of something that was somewhat inconsequential, had a knowledge base like swiss cheese, and liked to argue when he was wrong.

Apologies for the lecture, I guess I'm the TOTD. I've become cranky in my old age.
Too late Cardio. I believe I've already won today's honor (with another nomination from you no less!). Better luck tomorrow!
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Old 04-17-2015, 01:49 PM
  #6108  
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Originally Posted by freezingflyboy View Post
Too late Cardio. I believe I've already won today's honor (with another nomination from you no less!). Better luck tomorrow!
LOL Don't worry I'm sure I'll create plenty of other chances to win it for myself .
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Old 04-17-2015, 01:51 PM
  #6109  
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Originally Posted by Fegelein View Post
Did your F/O file an ASAP report for himself trying to follow the proper company procedure and having YOU override him and order him to turn off the EAI? You, of course wouldn't be covered as ASAP doesn't cover willfully disregarding proper procedures, which you admit you did. These posts of your should be forwarded to Delta HR for a proper review of your fitness for consideration. I know some Delta pilots who take their reputation very seriously and would think poorly of the attitude you would bring and they might make "inquiries".
Sheesh, tough crowd! I said I was wrong and I learned from it. What more is a guy supposed to do in this business? You're right, definitely worth derailing someone's career who's attitude is literally "Hmmm. Maybe I'M the one who is wrong here. Let me see if I can figure out where I got fouled up and learn from it."
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Old 04-17-2015, 01:56 PM
  #6110  
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Originally Posted by Fegelein View Post
Did your F/O file an ASAP report for himself trying to follow the proper company procedure and having YOU override him and order him to turn off the EAI? You, of course wouldn't be covered as ASAP doesn't cover willfully disregarding proper procedures, which you admit you did. These posts of your should be forwarded to Delta HR for a proper review of your fitness for consideration. I know some Delta pilots who take their reputation very seriously and would think poorly of the attitude you would bring and they might make "inquiries".
Don't get ridiculous. His original post said nothing about not allowing the FO to turn on the anti-ice.

I think the issue is, that freezingflyboy's original post reeked of arrogance. I've flown with arrogant pilots and it is a character trait that leaves the entire crew open to a whole mess of trouble.

I am by no means perfect, but whenever a fellow pilot asks me if I'm "sure" about something, my immediate response is.."absolutely not...I'll look it up."

I may be 100% positive in my brain, but if another professional pilot calls me on it, what makes me right and him wrong?

I hope that this was a learning moment for the OP.
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