Hey pinnacle hire me I have 4000hrs.......however I do have 3 faa failures (private, cfi and ATP single engine) why I had to get an ATP single engine after I had my ATP multi I dont know. stupid stupid stupid.:confused:

You are not alone. Good luck. I have heard contradicting tales of "pinks" and interviews.:)

Staffing issue caused by a lot of things. Our block hours went up in January to about our summer average. February is just as high. We have also lost people since summer, but I know we have new hires somewhere (I haven't seen many).

The company continues to blame above average numbers of unplanned absences, but I would like to know at what point the average changes because that excuse is getting old.

O please do tell

I just finished up not too long ago from the Sept 27th class, each class normally starts off with 14 and ends up with about 12 acutally completing training. They are very short staffed by all means.

Last time I was there there were only 2 sims working in MEM, However my whole class got sent to STL flight Saftey to do our sim training up there cause they could spread it out a little better. None the less they are running classes about every two weeks and I was told that they are going to be running them for a few months to come. With FEDEX hiring soon , I would imagine were going to loose pilots to them, We have a good number of Fedex legacy kids here that are waiting in line to leave.

For those who want it keep applying , they are not taking the cream of the crop in my opinion, they really just want cool people that are safe and can stand you in the cockpit for hours on end. Failed check rides is not a dead end for those who have em, a few people in training had some and they all got hired.

good luck, timing is everything

This is just sad to read.

Don't worry.... we'll be applying the same hiring criteria to Mesaba soon enough ;)

Probably a stupid question, but do you also need to do this if you already hold an ATP?

Not as much attrition, but I'd expect it to start picking up as airlines hire later this year. We lost a few to jetBlue, Emirates or just straight up saying "Screw you guys, I'm goin' home." FedEx opening the application window has guys in MEM salivating like rabid dogs. I think it's more the block hours that are hurting our staffing right now. We're still experiencing "high instances of unplanned absences," but that SHOULDN'T be a shocker considering the time of year and weather. Unfortunately, any time someone calls in sick, it's a shocker to the "plan for the best and ignore what could possibly go wrong" style of management here, which is why EVERYONE is required to bring a doctor's note, even if you just have a sinus headache that would go away on it's own in a day or two. I've still been getting calls for JMs on my days off and burning extension refusals, and I've seen the "no FO/no CA" for cancellation reasons on the SOC Dashboard on a daily basis.

KIGONYE

I have read/heard conflicting reports of having a bust or two is an instant DQ to be hired at 9E. I cannot/will not tell you that because of your track record you will not get an interview. BTW I do not work at 9E. Best of luck in the job search!

More than three busts is the limit at 9E.

What has been getting guys in trouble is failing to disclose all the failures in the background (incl. oral, flight, 121, 135, etc.).

When the FOIA report comes back (Freedom of Information Act) from the FAA and it doesn't agree with the applicant's story then the individual is let go for failure to disclose.

The moral of the story - disclose all failures in your background on the application, during the pre-interview phone phase, and during the interview itself.

Fair enough. Thanks for clearing that up. I take it you are a 9E employee? Lying on an app has always and will always be the
end.

Not true, the limit is NO more than 2 busts. 3+ is DQ

Why don't they devise a hiring method to weed out pilots that don't have the required talents instead of just relying on number of tests failed? They are instead relying on a superficial limit which is all arbitrarily placed on someone not involved with the company and could have taken place years ago. I've seen examiners bust pilots for making errors, realizing and then fixing that error. This same examiner would then let other people make major flying errors without correction and proceed to not bust them. Some of the worst people I have meet in aviation have been designated examiners who have no business in aviation at all let alone be designated by the FAA as an examiner. And airline companies are letting these people decide who does and who doesn't work at their respective companies?

I would think that 1 or 2 busts would cover what you are saying.. getting in the 3+ range and there may be some underlying problem, especially if they are from different examiners.

hit it right on the head sir.,,,, While in training a few people were well into systems class and they got kicked out due to a undisclosed failed event from the past.

So be honest fellas,,, they are going to find out none the less

I have had the pleasure to fly with some of the finest pilots, both young and old, male and female in recent years. They too have a story or two to
tell about a five star D'bag who busted them on an upgrade ride for "too aggressive use of power levers". I'm sorry there are checkride standards, and those we use to fly the line. I know both AA and UAL don't want to hear it, but you have to fess up.

You sound like someone who has busted a lot of checkrides.

Nope, no busts. Since you passed judgment on me, you sound like someone who has done no instructing. You sound like you have limited experience dealing with examiners and sending students on checkrides. There is not a single checkride ever taken where someone couldn't find something to fail you on if they wanted. Yes, every single checkride you have been on you did something they could have failed you on.

Just because you go outside PTS standards, does not mean it has to be an automatic failure. You cannot make that kind of blanket statement for the entire PTS, it is situational.

Yes, it does not have to be an automatic failure - but it can be. It is all subjective. Anything situational is all subjective. That is my whole point and your statement just backs that up. It all depends on the examiner. Some examiners are business men and the nature of the business has a huge conflict of interest. They bust you they get to see more of your money and the second time around is usually not more than 20 minutes of their time.

Could someone possibly help me with finding an email address at Pinnacle? I need to get a hold of someone I used to work with who could hopefully help with getting a job there. PM me if you could. Thanks

PTS is PTS. They are "STANDARDS". If you go outside these standards, you SHOULD be busted (technically), however some examiners do not do so...

I think the point is that just about any idiot can take a test 100 times and pass once. They want skills, and just as important they want someone they can trust. Which means being honest. Now if you fail checkrides all of the time, well you probably are in the wrong line of work. The key is to take a check ride failure as a learning experience and be honest about it. Tell them why you failed and what you learned from it.

If I recall correctly the PTS says 'consistently' exceeds standards.

However its been a while since I looked at one.

Probably a stupid question, but do you also need to do this if you already hold an ATP?

Is Pinnacle hiring?

How many? What base?

Care to speculate as to the fate of those at the bottom after SLI.

What is second year FO pay on that new TA?

yes

no clue, prob JFK, possibly DTW

hiring at the majors is ramping back up, i would think those on the bottom are safe unless something catastrophic happens

1st yr- 25.92 2nd- 33.71

Pinnacle is in fact hiring. This new contract is going to be very good for our pilots, but there are so many unknowns at the moment that I would think long and hard before coming here. If I were looking at being hired right now, I would chose Colgan over Pinnacle. SLI is the reason.

SLI is the biggest unknown right now. As a new hire, you will end up at the bottom of any combined list, but that isn't what should worry you. The pay rates are pretty good on all of the planes now, but the jets still pay significantly more than the props (well for the 2 years until the Q400 catches up to the 200). Unless there are fences put in to the SLI, I believe that future vacancy's for the jets will go to people already on property. That may leave you on reserve for the next few years unless you voluntarily transfer to the Mesaba side and take the pay cut for flying a prop. Why not just start out on that side and avoid the seat lock that will come with changing airplanes?

All newhires after July 1 2010 are stapled to the bottom DOH anyhow...so SLI really isnt a factor for them.

It is a factor for everybody. It all comes down to what kind of fences are put in after SLI. If there are no fences, I would assume there will be a flood of people interested in coming to the jets. They won't be able to push anyone out of a seat, but they could bid over to the jet side during a vacancy. This would mean that a person who was junior on the jet before, would be staying junior on the jet for a very long time to come as vacancies to the better paying positions would go pretty senior.

Again, EVERYBODY is affected by SLI. The fact that someones spot on the overall list doesn't change, doesn't necessarily mean their outlook for QOL isn't affected.

Wait a minute, what makes you think a new hire at Colgan will get any senority benefits over existing or new hire 9E or XJ guys after SLI? By what means are you using to measure the pay rates being significantly different? I think thats a little bit of a reach. I wouldn't come into this with that mind set, this is a regional. If we were talking heavies and 73's then maybe. Do you really think these seat locks are going to be enforced when the flood gates open? 9E had seat locks with the ATL 900 flying, see how long that lasted? When the majors start soaking up regional pilots you can say goodbye to any seat locks. They will be scrambling to fill the vacancies. Who knows, you may be lucky enough to pick up displacement beny's out of the deal. One more thing, a question really. When/if the contract is ratified and CORP wants to start moving the 900's to the 9E ticket, how do they expect XJ guys to be able to fly the 9E way without some sort of training event? Has this been talked about at all? I don't think the FAA would be too excited if XJ pilots transfered over and the next day started flying with 9E. Am I correct in assuming that some sort of training event will be required for XJ guys, and I guess the same goes for Colgan going to XJ. Anyone think of that? If we think the staffing is horrid now, how will we staff when guys are in training? IMO, these 95 block and 10 day off (im sorry 11 as of the 18th) are going to continue for the forseeable future.

I'm not sure how it is on the 9e side but 9l is already bringing its training department in-line with xj's training. They basically have been slowly updating our procedures and manuals to have them match mesaba's. Once the integration takes place then we will more than likely just get any necessary training at recurrent.

I do believe that the original poster was correct in his assumption that people at Colgan will want to jump ship to 9e's side and this can keep people on reserve for a long time. For me, its less about the pay and more about the base which is true for a lot of people (the pay is a huge bonus though). I grew up 15 minutes from DTW so where do you think I would prefer to be: IAD (where the cost of living is ten times higher) or where I call home?

If its true that you will only be able to move between certificates once like everyone thinks will happen, I can't see too many 9e fo's willing to transfer over to the props and not be able to transfer back.

I don't believe it will be larger than 25% of pilots at 9e that would want to move though. It is something for a new hire to consider as there have been several hundred pilots that will be on the list of above them (9e and 9l combined) that were just hired after July.

Unless something comes out in the SLI or I missed some funky wording, there's nothing in the TA that will force people to only be able to hop certificates once. Kinda hurts management, really. If the CRJ-200 starts taking a hit in the staffing department and there are guys on the Saab or Q that want to bid over there but can't because they jumped to the Mesaba cert in the past, it's less flexibility. One of the key points that management kept harping on was flexibility for them to move things around. There's also a clause in the TA that says they can waive the seat lock provision as necessary. If things get tight on staffing on one airframe while they're overstaffed on another, they'll relax them. Then if no one bids the vacancy, they'll displace. Seems to be their latest MO around here....

From what I heard, the 11 days off minimum will not take effect till September if the JCBA passes.

You are correct. Its in lOA 2, you get 1 comp day for every month if you have 10 days off which you can be used after Sep 1. You also get a 82 hour gurantee.

So another example where we at Mesaba get basically nothing but 5 more years of our concessions in this contract? I really only see one gem in this contract and that's leg by leg guarantee, which as a reserve does me no good at all. Everything else is basically status quo or worse for Mesaba. ( no idea about the much bragged about healthcare as I haven't used the crap we have since I got married before the bankruptcy)

by status quo do you mean for furloughs, planes being parked, and the potential for the jets to move to pinnacle inc anyway, etc etc. mesaba has a lot to gain by this contract passing also. maybe you dont care but the hundreds of pilots on the furlough chop block do.

What chop block? Just saw on XJ's website they are hiring.

Anyone hired after 2/18/11 just goes to the bottom of the SLI list. For seniority purposes it doesnt matter what company they get hired into. If they want to try and fly a jet, go to 9E. If the turbo props suit you, go to 9L or XJ. If someone had a crystal ball, they might be able to tell where the quickest upgrades will be and that could influence your decision because of the freeze's, but I can tell you one thing, you will never upgrade before M.A at 9E. That guy will literally eat pig dung to upgrade.

the one lots of mesaba people are still on. the company is planning on this ta passing. If they weren't they would just recall the furloughed pilots instead of hiring more. They are hiring more, waiting for the ta to pass, and then will send out the recall letters and continue to hire.