What's happening at Horizon and Jets?
03-17-2017, 09:30 PM
#1403
Time to make the donuts!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: B737 FO
Posts: 303
Originally Posted by LAX2MSP
https://img.planespotters.net/photo/749000/950/n620qx-horizon-air-embraer-erj-175lr-erj-170-200-lr_PlanespottersNet_749947.jpg?t=1489767874
03-17-2017, 09:37 PM
#1404
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 82
Originally Posted by EngineOut
Will you guys paint the 175s in the college schemes? I hope so! Love those Qs!
I hope we do too i love them personally and I know the passengers love them as well, I think the jet would pull it off nicely but then again I was told that was up to air group now so I'm not sure.
03-18-2017, 07:31 AM
#1405
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 61
With the new San Diego routes that were announced this week, I'm calling a San Diego base announcement soon. If you look at the new E175 route structure the only way to get one to SAN is thru Albuquerque, Kansas City, or St. Louis... QX management wants a SoCal base. I have also heard San Jose is a top contender for a QX E175 base but most of those flights out of SJC are operated by OO.
03-18-2017, 08:17 AM
#1406
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Posts: 67
I don't understand WHY QX doesn't have a flow to AS.
You are taking some of the highest paid QX pilots and turning them into the lowest paid AS pilots. AS would be hiring pilots anyways.. Why not lower QX's costs in the process?
You are taking some of the highest paid QX pilots and turning them into the lowest paid AS pilots. AS would be hiring pilots anyways.. Why not lower QX's costs in the process?
03-18-2017, 08:21 AM
#1407
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by adebord
I don't understand WHY QX doesn't have a flow to AS.
You are taking some of the highest paid QX pilots and turning them into the lowest paid AS pilots. AS would be hiring pilots anyways.. Why not lower QX's costs in the process?
You are taking some of the highest paid QX pilots and turning them into the lowest paid AS pilots. AS would be hiring pilots anyways.. Why not lower QX's costs in the process?
03-18-2017, 09:05 AM
#1409
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Position: Left
Posts: 24
Bonuses: you have to be kidding, but I guess not. excerpt from union communication yesterday:
The thrust of the company’s argument are these two points:
· Under the Railway Labor Act you are not an “employee” until the completion of OE.
Horizon Air claims that its bonus programs are legal because they do not involve payments to “employees” covered by the RLA. Horizon Air claims that pilots are not “employees” covered by the RLA and the contract until they are released from OE. In the union’s view, Horizon Air’s argument is frivolous. The union pointed out that Horizon Air’s arguments are based upon old strikebreaker cases involving the United and Eastern strikes in the 80s and past rulings by the National Mediation Board (NMB) as to who was eligible to vote in union elections. The union, through live testimony, its briefs and arguments, explained that new hire pilots are employees on the first day of initial ground school training. Horizon Air’s argument is not only frivolous but also dangerous. The logical extension of its argument is that new hire pilots are not protected by the RLA and collective bargaining agreements until they are released to the line. They are, in Horizon Air’s view, therefore, at-will employees at the mercy of the company. The absurdity of Horizon Air’s argument only underscores the great lengths it will go to bypass negotiating with its pilots.
· Even if new hire pilots are employees, Horizon claims that it pays the bonuses as “pre-employment” bonuses.
Horizon also argued that even if the new hire pilots are “employees” covered by the RLA and the contract, the bonus payments were made to them before they became employees. The company claims that as long as it pays the bonuses to the pilots even one minute before they sit down in a ground school training classroom chair the pilots are not yet employees and therefore the payments themselves are legal. Horizon Air’s Chris Lewless was tasked with making this argument and he could not even make it with a straight face. First he fumbled around trying to avoid explaining what a “new hire” pilot is. Then, when he was asked to read a section from your CBA, he conceded that new hire pilots are indeed just that – new hire first officer pilots who are employees covered by the CBA. Before his blush of embarrassment faded, Mr. Lewless then testified he had no idea when the actual bonus payments were paid (in contrast with the pilot conference calls in January). On the witness stand yesterday, Mr. Lewless testified that the payments could have been made “eight hours before class started, I don’t really know.” Contrast that to his statements made during the pilots’ teleconference when he explained that the bonuses were paid after the new hires arrive for their first day of class, and that the checks are handed out by management during a group meeting conducted an hour or so before the start of the first day’s class. In any event, even though Mr. Lewless appeared to have selective amnesia yesterday, we are certain that the absurdity of the possibility that Horizon met with new hires in the middle of the night to hand out bonuses was not lost on anybody in the court.
After closing arguments, Judge Lasnik took the motion on advisement and stated that he would rule no later than Tuesday of this coming week.
The thrust of the company’s argument are these two points:
· Under the Railway Labor Act you are not an “employee” until the completion of OE.
Horizon Air claims that its bonus programs are legal because they do not involve payments to “employees” covered by the RLA. Horizon Air claims that pilots are not “employees” covered by the RLA and the contract until they are released from OE. In the union’s view, Horizon Air’s argument is frivolous. The union pointed out that Horizon Air’s arguments are based upon old strikebreaker cases involving the United and Eastern strikes in the 80s and past rulings by the National Mediation Board (NMB) as to who was eligible to vote in union elections. The union, through live testimony, its briefs and arguments, explained that new hire pilots are employees on the first day of initial ground school training. Horizon Air’s argument is not only frivolous but also dangerous. The logical extension of its argument is that new hire pilots are not protected by the RLA and collective bargaining agreements until they are released to the line. They are, in Horizon Air’s view, therefore, at-will employees at the mercy of the company. The absurdity of Horizon Air’s argument only underscores the great lengths it will go to bypass negotiating with its pilots.
· Even if new hire pilots are employees, Horizon claims that it pays the bonuses as “pre-employment” bonuses.
Horizon also argued that even if the new hire pilots are “employees” covered by the RLA and the contract, the bonus payments were made to them before they became employees. The company claims that as long as it pays the bonuses to the pilots even one minute before they sit down in a ground school training classroom chair the pilots are not yet employees and therefore the payments themselves are legal. Horizon Air’s Chris Lewless was tasked with making this argument and he could not even make it with a straight face. First he fumbled around trying to avoid explaining what a “new hire” pilot is. Then, when he was asked to read a section from your CBA, he conceded that new hire pilots are indeed just that – new hire first officer pilots who are employees covered by the CBA. Before his blush of embarrassment faded, Mr. Lewless then testified he had no idea when the actual bonus payments were paid (in contrast with the pilot conference calls in January). On the witness stand yesterday, Mr. Lewless testified that the payments could have been made “eight hours before class started, I don’t really know.” Contrast that to his statements made during the pilots’ teleconference when he explained that the bonuses were paid after the new hires arrive for their first day of class, and that the checks are handed out by management during a group meeting conducted an hour or so before the start of the first day’s class. In any event, even though Mr. Lewless appeared to have selective amnesia yesterday, we are certain that the absurdity of the possibility that Horizon met with new hires in the middle of the night to hand out bonuses was not lost on anybody in the court.
After closing arguments, Judge Lasnik took the motion on advisement and stated that he would rule no later than Tuesday of this coming week.
03-18-2017, 01:40 PM
#1410
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
Originally Posted by adebord
I don't understand WHY QX doesn't have a flow to AS.
You are taking some of the highest paid QX pilots and turning them into the lowest paid AS pilots. AS would be hiring pilots anyways.. Why not lower QX's costs in the process?
You are taking some of the highest paid QX pilots and turning them into the lowest paid AS pilots. AS would be hiring pilots anyways.. Why not lower QX's costs in the process?
Thought that was interesting because QX pilots are trained to the same standard as AS pilots. You have the work, attendance and training records of the QX guys. So why not flow at least a percentage of your requirements from QX to AS?
George Bagley, (aka "The Bagwan"), QX CEO at th time, "I'm not going to be the Training Dept. for Alaska Airlines!" In the meantime, QX pilots were leaving for the Majors in droves. Flow would have kept at least a bunch of those guys in AAG.
It's a mystery.
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