crew services
09-16-2005, 03:13 PM
#11
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Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by BlueSide
Just an idea..... Skywest has a group called the Skywest pilots association that is NOT a union but does represent the pilots to the company. It is comparable to the values committee but with a little more bite. Any old skywest people here that have a little more knowledge?
09-16-2005, 07:44 PM
#13
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: A320
Posts: 76
Originally Posted by 2 BLUE
This sounds like a great idea!
JAPA....has a nice ring to it. It doesn't have to be a UNION. It could just be another committee of 5 to 10 pilots.
JAPA....has a nice ring to it. It doesn't have to be a UNION. It could just be another committee of 5 to 10 pilots.
Respectfully,
JayDub
09-16-2005, 08:23 PM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by JayDub
Oh cool! Yet another committee. What exactly is the record number of committees?
Respectfully,
JayDub
Respectfully,
JayDub
You're right.
Another committee is a waste of time. They don't provide the kind of representation that professional pilots require.
09-17-2005, 06:11 AM
#15
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: A320, left
Posts: 37
Food for thought
Something to consider/debate/trash/whatever when discussing having "our opinion represented"...
Does "the pilot group" have anything resembling a uniform opinion?
Even this board seems fairly divided.
Just one example related to this thread: I was a part of 2 conversations over 2 days regarding Reserve assignments in which a few guys expressed the following opinions:
1) I come in on my first day, and they've given me the 2000-0800 shift, pretty much a guarantee that I'll get a redeye. That's BULLSH*T... that shift should go to the most junior guys. I want the 0800-2000 bankers' hours.
2) I come in on my first day, and they've given me the 0800-2000. So now I've gotta commute in on the day before -- that's BULLSH*T! They should give the most junior guys the early shifts on the first days and give the more senior ones the latest show possible.
Again, my point is not that our Reserve system / Crew Services couldn't use some help, but rather that I'm not convinced I want a couple of guys saying things like "we all can't stand redeyes" on my behalf.
Union / pilot association / committee... great, necessary even, if we're flat out being screwed, but are these issues of that magnitude??
Does "the pilot group" have anything resembling a uniform opinion?
Even this board seems fairly divided.
Just one example related to this thread: I was a part of 2 conversations over 2 days regarding Reserve assignments in which a few guys expressed the following opinions:
1) I come in on my first day, and they've given me the 2000-0800 shift, pretty much a guarantee that I'll get a redeye. That's BULLSH*T... that shift should go to the most junior guys. I want the 0800-2000 bankers' hours.
2) I come in on my first day, and they've given me the 0800-2000. So now I've gotta commute in on the day before -- that's BULLSH*T! They should give the most junior guys the early shifts on the first days and give the more senior ones the latest show possible.
Again, my point is not that our Reserve system / Crew Services couldn't use some help, but rather that I'm not convinced I want a couple of guys saying things like "we all can't stand redeyes" on my behalf.
Union / pilot association / committee... great, necessary even, if we're flat out being screwed, but are these issues of that magnitude??
09-17-2005, 03:06 PM
#17
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Posts: n/a
There are a good number of serious issues in prior threads on this message board that would justify a discussion about collective bargaining.
Not the least of which is a large cadre of our own pilots who've managed to work the system for big bucks all while they whine about any little complaint that might cost them some profit sharing. Profit sharing never seems to be an issue when we discuss 120 credit hour months but LOWWW to the pilot who suggests that we staff the airline for quality of life or we do something novel like allow reserve pilots to enjoy the days off that they've been scheduled for. You're lucky to have a job after all.
There are discussions about job protection, medical benefits, scheduling abuses, scheduling committee biases, lopsided compensation, and benefits to name a few.
To pick out two conflicting statements about a couple of pilot's reserve preferences is anecdotal and misleading.
This pilot group is smart enough to know the difference, and there's enough union experience on this property to know when things are going in a familiar direction.
It's just talk right?
Not the least of which is a large cadre of our own pilots who've managed to work the system for big bucks all while they whine about any little complaint that might cost them some profit sharing. Profit sharing never seems to be an issue when we discuss 120 credit hour months but LOWWW to the pilot who suggests that we staff the airline for quality of life or we do something novel like allow reserve pilots to enjoy the days off that they've been scheduled for. You're lucky to have a job after all.
There are discussions about job protection, medical benefits, scheduling abuses, scheduling committee biases, lopsided compensation, and benefits to name a few.
To pick out two conflicting statements about a couple of pilot's reserve preferences is anecdotal and misleading.
This pilot group is smart enough to know the difference, and there's enough union experience on this property to know when things are going in a familiar direction.
It's just talk right?
Last edited by bluebird; 09-17-2005 at 03:25 PM.
09-17-2005, 03:56 PM
#18
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Posts: n/a
Also: pilot representation need not be focused immediately on issues of direct cost like pay and benefits.
And: dues need not be collected in the early stages. In later years 1/2 to 1 percent can be collected when and if the pilot group feels the need to collect dues and to pursue a contract. Since we already have a contract, it might be argued that the framework is laid. The pursuit of enhancements to this existing document might be done inexepensively.
Most pilot unions were started and run by volunteers and even though the pilots had voted for representation, simple enhancements/protections to the existing operation were all that were sought initially. Many groups were only seeking the protection of due process and the ability to reign in leaders who were beginning to get a little fast and loose with the regular pilot's life.
ALL unions (particularly in-house unions) are strictly democratic institutions. The lessons learned by this pilot group give me confidence that we have a good chance of avoiding the mistakes of the past. Much like the prudence and professionalism displayed by our friends at SWA. The only difference might be that we have additional insight post 9/11. I also believe that when faced with the reality of a collective bargaining agent, David and Dave will take the high road and act as admirably as Herb.
It IS a RIGHT - established by law - for very good reasons.
When someone begins the rant about Jimmy Hoffa or Mad Dog all I can say is that every institution is corruptible - even the Catholic Church, and boards of directors, and CFO's, and charities, and government agencies, and school boards, and city planners, and YES even companies.
So save the long one-sided diatribes about how pilots themselves are the cause of all our woe's. I do not subscribe to the idea that I'm lucky to have a job. I earned it.
And: dues need not be collected in the early stages. In later years 1/2 to 1 percent can be collected when and if the pilot group feels the need to collect dues and to pursue a contract. Since we already have a contract, it might be argued that the framework is laid. The pursuit of enhancements to this existing document might be done inexepensively.
Most pilot unions were started and run by volunteers and even though the pilots had voted for representation, simple enhancements/protections to the existing operation were all that were sought initially. Many groups were only seeking the protection of due process and the ability to reign in leaders who were beginning to get a little fast and loose with the regular pilot's life.
ALL unions (particularly in-house unions) are strictly democratic institutions. The lessons learned by this pilot group give me confidence that we have a good chance of avoiding the mistakes of the past. Much like the prudence and professionalism displayed by our friends at SWA. The only difference might be that we have additional insight post 9/11. I also believe that when faced with the reality of a collective bargaining agent, David and Dave will take the high road and act as admirably as Herb.
It IS a RIGHT - established by law - for very good reasons.
When someone begins the rant about Jimmy Hoffa or Mad Dog all I can say is that every institution is corruptible - even the Catholic Church, and boards of directors, and CFO's, and charities, and government agencies, and school boards, and city planners, and YES even companies.
So save the long one-sided diatribes about how pilots themselves are the cause of all our woe's. I do not subscribe to the idea that I'm lucky to have a job. I earned it.
09-17-2005, 07:31 PM
#19
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: right here
Posts: 95
Originally Posted by bluebird
So save the long one-sided diatribes about how pilots themselves are the cause of all our woe's. I do not subscribe to the idea that I'm lucky to have a job. I earned it.
09-18-2005, 04:03 PM
#20
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by 2 BLUE
This sounds like a great idea!
JAPA....has a nice ring to it. It doesn't have to be a UNION. It could just be another committee of 5 to 10 pilots.
JAPA....has a nice ring to it. It doesn't have to be a UNION. It could just be another committee of 5 to 10 pilots.
I'll second the motion for the 1036th committee if I can be the 1045th Vice President of Committee Selections!!
Last edited by jetblue320; 09-18-2005 at 04:05 PM.
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