It’s going to be 2020 or longer regardless of yes or no vote. This company has not met one single deadline in 18 years!! Unless there is some financial penalty to the company attached to the implementation timeline, they are going to delay, sweet talk and make excuses until the Grievance process is our recourse for non-compliance.

I’m more inclined to believe that the legality of the contract will force JB into adhering to the agreed upon timelines of implementation. If the time comes where the dates and practices aren’t implemented then legal action will be required.

However, the DOS agreement will be real. The 401k balances and W2 results will be real. You’re signing bonus will be real. A CBA to carry in your hip pocket will be real.

Vote Yes.

-Bubs

Why is that? CBAs are violated all the time by airlines. Grievances are filed. ALPA doesn’t just file a lawsuit over every violation of a CBA and a judge then orders the airline to suddenly fix its ways. That said, I don’t see this timeline getting pushed. They already won with Dec 2019 implementation. No reason for them to push it further and **** off more pilots.

[QUOTE=Bluedriver;2623508]Blue driver loves Blue, does not help out this pilot group at all, all out for himself, makes up lies about fellow union brothers, does not go to his union meetings and hides......

Then wonders why contract does not meet his expectations?

You realize you make yourself look just as bad as BD on here?

Also, under section 4, Minimum Pay Guarantee, if you have a training footprint over 15 days in any bid month, you automatically get paid 80 hours. So that would be my guess and like your said, you are “in training” until completion of your LOE for New Hires.

I don’t know why I engage with you because you’ve demonstrated on here that nothing short of you being hired at Delta will make you happy. I’m not sure that even would. Sure you can pick and choose parts of different contracts and use that to say how we’re behind. Yes Delta has and will continue to have better reserve rules than us. That doesn’t automatically mean ours are not good. Yeah the DRO sucks but part of that suck was it not coming out until noon. That has gotten a lot better. As a guy who’s currently on reserve and most likely will be for years I think I’m in a good position to judge the TA reserve section. It’s not perfect but it’s light years ahead of what we have now. There’s no way it’s cost neutral.

Speaking of cost neutral, the union says this will cost the company $750 million over the course of he next 4 years. You say cost neutral. So who’s being dishonest? You or our union? My bet is you.

To add onto this, Section 24.W.1...

"1. Unless provided otherwise in this Agreement, a Pilot’s pay for a new Status shall
be effective upon the completion of OE or four (4) weeks after his LOE,
whichever occurs first. "

Is that industry standard? So for example, you upgrade to CA, is my understanding correct that you don't get CA pay until completion of OE?? Every other job I've had you start your new seat pay at the completion of the checkride. With this rule it appears you'll be getting FO pay while flying as a CA during OE. Unless I'm missing something, that doesn't make any sense.


I'm still undecided, but the signing bonus is the last thing on the list that will make me vote yes. New guys might get $1k if they're lucky. Still not sure of the actual distribution details but rough math tells me I won't see anything that would make a signing bonus tip me one way or the other.


One thing I wanted from this new contract as a relatively new guy is something solid enough that would make me question leaving JB if someone else calls. I wanted a contract that, if DL/UA/AA/FDX call, I'd have to really sit down and crunch numbers and see if it's worth it. So far this TA doesn't do that for me. Future retention and new hire attraction will be very important, especially as hiring ramps up at other places. A mediocre contract isn't going to keep butts to the seats.

The way I look at it, it shows you how much money the company has saved over the last several years.

And will continue to save if we vote this down. That’s one of the reasons I’m probably going to vote yes. I do not believe that we recoup the losses of voting this down in a hypothetical TA2.