Why I'm voting Yes
07-02-2018 | 03:06 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2006
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Attacking the union is unacceptable.
07-02-2018 | 03:33 PM
#42
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 24
F Off dude. I'm not attacking anyone in the union. I'm a volunteer and have worked really hard towards getting this pilot group unified and keeping everyone informed. I appreciate everything the NC guys did and they should never buy a beer again. They got us as far as they could and should be commended for it.
My comments were made for Southerner and Southerner alone.
07-02-2018 | 03:39 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,206
Likes: 0
F Off dude. I'm not attacking anyone in the union. I'm a volunteer and have worked really hard towards getting this pilot group unified and keeping everyone informed. I appreciate everything the NC guys did and they should never buy a beer again. They got us as far as they could and should be commended for it.
My comments were made for Southerner and Southerner alone.
My comments were made for Southerner and Southerner alone.
07-03-2018 | 09:54 AM
#44
Banned
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,132
Likes: 0
Trump’s trade war policies are going to push us into a recession and this will be the best deal we will see for quite a while.
If this TA gets voted down, the company will be able to withdraw their offer and then we are negotiating in a much worse economic climate. To draw out talks and go back to the drawing board for just marginal improvements is foolish, in my opinion.
Not only could the company lower their monetary stance, but the following will also happen if we drag this out:
I'm taking the deal. A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.
Here are some facts:
The economic recovery and bull market which followed the 2008 meltdown was stretched and getting really long in the tooth by any measure. Inflation is picking up and interest rates have started to creep up. Then Trump decides on a full-blown trade war, which nobody wins.
The deal on the table is good enough, for now. I'm taking the money. Trump is clueless and vindictive and we are all gonna pay dearly for it. This is just my opinion and obviously not everybody will see things this way. Everybody needs to make their own informed decision. I’m voting Yes.
In Unity,
Sun Tzu
PS I’m not on blue pilots but if anyone wants to copy and paste it there, feel free.
PPS No, I’m not a “company plant" who just joined this board to get this so-so deal to pass. I’m just a dork who has way too much time on his hands and spends it reading about cheese farmers in Wisconsin.
If this TA gets voted down, the company will be able to withdraw their offer and then we are negotiating in a much worse economic climate. To draw out talks and go back to the drawing board for just marginal improvements is foolish, in my opinion.
Not only could the company lower their monetary stance, but the following will also happen if we drag this out:
- We will still have a healthcare plan that’s outside of a CBA. Yes, this plan still stinks, but I would rather have a lousy health care plan within the CBA than outside of it during an economic downturn.
- We will not have scope codified in a CBA.
- We will not have 15% 401k match.
I'm taking the deal. A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.
Here are some facts:
- Oil is up 45% since Trump took office.
- Iowa pork producers are on track to lose over $500 million this year.
- Harley Davidson is moving production from Kansas and Wisconsin to overseas factories to get around tariff retaliations imposed by other nations. Polaris (Indian motorcycles, snow mobiles, etc) is following suit.
- Next up, Trump is going to go full-blown trade war in the auto sector. (Brace for impact)
- Bourbon distillers are readying for 25% tariffs slapped onto their products.
- Kentucky dairy farmers are selling out and closing down.
- Wisconsin cheese makers aren’t sure how they’re going to make up the lost sales.
The economic recovery and bull market which followed the 2008 meltdown was stretched and getting really long in the tooth by any measure. Inflation is picking up and interest rates have started to creep up. Then Trump decides on a full-blown trade war, which nobody wins.
The deal on the table is good enough, for now. I'm taking the money. Trump is clueless and vindictive and we are all gonna pay dearly for it. This is just my opinion and obviously not everybody will see things this way. Everybody needs to make their own informed decision. I’m voting Yes.
In Unity,
Sun Tzu
PS I’m not on blue pilots but if anyone wants to copy and paste it there, feel free.
PPS No, I’m not a “company plant" who just joined this board to get this so-so deal to pass. I’m just a dork who has way too much time on his hands and spends it reading about cheese farmers in Wisconsin.
You are a company plant and someone who benefits handsomly from special status that the rest of us don't enjoy. You are also making arguments based on pure emotion and pseudo-statistics that are just speculative. You make more noise than most people but that doesn't mean you're correct about anything. In fact, you've been wrong about many things you've said.
This TA is full of legal traps (e.g. the Dependability Policy is now officially a contract element) and substandard pay.
There is no harm in voting NO and fixing a few things in this TA to get a better TA that is actually industry rate. This TA still falls short of industry unless you consider yourself part of Cubana or Great Lakes.
People like you are betting on people's ignorance of the process in order to achieve YOUR goals. The truth is that we don't have to settle for less.
The Railway Labor Act Simplified
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
07-03-2018 | 09:58 AM
#45
Banned
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,132
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Though I agree that there's some economic risk in dragging this out further, and that a recession is due, you've probably lost just about everyone at "Trump". Why make it political? In the short-term, the economy is an animal all itself. The use of past, current or future presidents to explain it is nothing but propaganda.
And continue with 67 more hamster wheel posts...
And continue with 67 more hamster wheel posts...
Not to mention, virtually every economist has shown that despite whatever three letter contraction they put behind their names, no one can read the future. The stock market and the market are in general a stochastic process that a simple economist multivariable equation can't easily describe. Larry the Cable Guy is just as qualified to speculate about the economy.
You are trying to scare people into voting Yes because you are a company plant. That's why you block me, because you know I'm right and you can't entertain my opposing ideas.
What we need to do is Vote NO on this contract, then Vote YES when it gets rewritten with a few adjustments. Right now we are settling for the first girl we ever meet.
The Railway Labor Act Simplified
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
07-03-2018 | 10:00 AM
#46
Banned
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,132
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We HAD leverage, and it got us a pretty good deal. If we vote this down, we will no longer have leverage, and it will like be 12-18 months before we see another deal. If the economy takes a nose-dive during that time, our leverage becomes even weaker. So I think there is something to his perspective.
Is it industry leading in all categories? No, but that wasn't ever going to happen. That's not how any of this works.
Is it industry leading in all categories? No, but that wasn't ever going to happen. That's not how any of this works.
Pure speculation. You just want people to accept a substandard contract because you are a company plant.
We've seen BJ do this with the FA union too... remember the fake "FA" website they set up, which looked incredibly professional? It doesn't cost much to pay someone like Southerner with special treatment or looking the other way when he needs it.
The Railway Labor Act Simplified
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
07-03-2018 | 10:10 AM
#47
Banned
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,132
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What if you're wrong.
What if we are entering a period of economic prosperity that we have not seen for literally decades.
Because that's what I believe, and that's why I'm voting no.
Mark your calendar for this time next year. By that time the economic expansion will be obvious and undeniable, and this pilot group will be kicking itself for ratifying a substandard Agreement.
Turn off the TV and look around you. This period of time is unprecedented. It won't occur again. Recognize the opportunities and grab them with both hands.
What if we are entering a period of economic prosperity that we have not seen for literally decades.
Because that's what I believe, and that's why I'm voting no.
Mark your calendar for this time next year. By that time the economic expansion will be obvious and undeniable, and this pilot group will be kicking itself for ratifying a substandard Agreement.
Turn off the TV and look around you. This period of time is unprecedented. It won't occur again. Recognize the opportunities and grab them with both hands.
I *believe* you are correct.
But I *know* that what is happening now is unprecedented (in a good way). No one can predict the future particularly with an unprecedented trajectory. We KNOW that analysists have been consistently wrong. We KNOW the media is simply a tool of political parties and thus they tell you what to think. People who know HOW to think aren't buying any fear-mongering, like what Southerner is blabbing about. The truth is that Trump, like him or not, is re-plumbing the economy to give the USA the equal footing it has lost over the last 40 years. E.U. countries and China steal from the USA by imposing super high tariffs on our exports while we have little or NO tariffs on imports. When Americans are allowed to compete on equal grounds (e.g. no slave labor from China or government subsidized companies in E.U.), we kick a$$. I'm extremely optimistic that we can Vote NO then renegotiate TA 2.0 with some adjustments to truly make this an industry rate contract. Right now it's substandard and legally dangerous (e.g. the official legitimization of the Dependability Policy and outsourcing to various BJ policies).
The Railway Labor Act Simplified
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
07-03-2018 | 10:14 AM
#48
Banned
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,132
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HB, don't you do more stuff than line pilots for the company?
The Railway Labor Act Simplified
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
07-03-2018 | 10:21 AM
#49
Banned
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,132
Likes: 0
It isn't irrational at all. If the economy tanks and we are still negotiating, our position will likely be worse. That absolutely should be considered.
The fact that you accept that risk is fine. Others do not accept that risk, which is fine also. But to deny that it exists as a risk at all is incorrect.
The fact that you accept that risk is fine. Others do not accept that risk, which is fine also. But to deny that it exists as a risk at all is incorrect.
Considered and rejected being on the grounds of being pure speculation without factual basis. No one can read the future, except maybe Southerner. The economic plumbing is being redone to put this country on equal footing with the leeches of the world (e.g. the E.U., China). They take huge tariffs on our exports. They manipulate the currency (China). They use slave labor (China - FoxConn). And they subsidize their corporations through military ownership (China) and government handouts (E.U.). If the USA gets to compete fairly again, we will dominate and our negotiating posture will only get better and better. Never underestimate the American worker!
The Railway Labor Act Simplified
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
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