System Bid
06-23-2019, 06:49 AM
#71
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,881
Originally Posted by Tom a Hawk
I did not sell back. I typically took 2-3 vacation weeks a year and used the rest for drops/sick. Under the old system if I took 2 weeks I had 77 hours of pto left over and could uts. Now I’ll have 72 hours left over and can’t uts. It’s even worse at 3 weeks now assuming you can get a third (<10yrs).
This is my point. All different types of pilots were better off with the old system because they could choose what they wanted. One size does not fit this pilot group.
This is my point. All different types of pilots were better off with the old system because they could choose what they wanted. One size does not fit this pilot group.
I don't disagree with you entirely, but definitely do want the better distribution system from what we had previously with hardly any summer weeks and everything in Sept/Oct.
We could all write a dream Vaca system on a napkin. 6 weeks for every pilot, 80% distributed in June, July and August, 500 hours sick time, 50 hours pay per week...
Now get JB to agree to that, or even the more realistic plan most of us have in mind.
They just won't, especially with an MEC that waited 3 years to call a Labor Dispute and wanted to give the company a "chance" to negotiate in good faith, which they were NEVER going to do.
If we have an MEC next time that's willing to be MUCH more aggressive and much earlier in the process, we will have a much better chance at achieving what we want.
06-23-2019, 06:54 AM
#72
What’s it doing now?
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: 190CA
Posts: 726
I’ll eat my words if I’m wrong but I don’t think the better distribution will help. Because of the forced vacation those who weren’t taking it will now grab your summer week. I don’t see June/July/August vacation weeks going below the top 40% in a given seat/base.
06-23-2019, 07:39 AM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 591
Agreed.
Our bottom of the barrel allocation table killed us.
35 hours in the mind of a few made up for it.
It made it worse.
But gave the MEC a flashing slogan just like industry leading pairing parameters to sell the TA to the group.
Our bottom of the barrel allocation table killed us.
35 hours in the mind of a few made up for it.
It made it worse.
But gave the MEC a flashing slogan just like industry leading pairing parameters to sell the TA to the group.
06-23-2019, 08:03 AM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,918
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
Dis A Gree.
Round bidding, yes. Much, much, much better distribution? Heck yes.
The old system didn't have NEAR enough summer vacations allotted.
There are lots of other things to debate about the two systems, allocation is not one of them.
Round bidding, yes. Much, much, much better distribution? Heck yes.
The old system didn't have NEAR enough summer vacations allotted.
There are lots of other things to debate about the two systems, allocation is not one of them.
That is correct
06-23-2019, 08:14 AM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 591
Except confusion of terms.
Allocation is the number of weeks granted and is a function of longevity.
Distribution is how the company spreads the allocated weeks out over the year, month and week.
Distribution is not allocation.
Allocation is the number of weeks granted and is a function of longevity.
Distribution is how the company spreads the allocated weeks out over the year, month and week.
Distribution is not allocation.
06-23-2019, 06:03 PM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 591
IOW the allocation in the CBA is the worst in the business.
We went from the worst, 2 weeks, to the worst 3 weeks and after 20 years 4 weeks, the worst.
At least we have industry leading pairings to drive QOL in between the vacation periods we are not getting while the MEC Chair is whinny to FLOPS about paring quality after telling us to vote for the TA.
Can't make the stuff up! It would be funny if it wasn't so predictable.
We went from the worst, 2 weeks, to the worst 3 weeks and after 20 years 4 weeks, the worst.
At least we have industry leading pairings to drive QOL in between the vacation periods we are not getting while the MEC Chair is whinny to FLOPS about paring quality after telling us to vote for the TA.
Can't make the stuff up! It would be funny if it wasn't so predictable.
06-23-2019, 06:24 PM
#77
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 442
Originally Posted by BlueJetDork
IOW the allocation in the CBA is the worst in the business.
We went from the worst, 2 weeks, to the worst 3 weeks and after 20 years 4 weeks, the worst.
At least we have industry leading pairings to drive QOL in between the vacation periods we are not getting while the MEC Chair is whinny to FLOPS about paring quality after telling us to vote for the TA.
Can't make the stuff up! It would be funny if it wasn't so predictable.
We went from the worst, 2 weeks, to the worst 3 weeks and after 20 years 4 weeks, the worst.
At least we have industry leading pairings to drive QOL in between the vacation periods we are not getting while the MEC Chair is whinny to FLOPS about paring quality after telling us to vote for the TA.
Can't make the stuff up! It would be funny if it wasn't so predictable.
06-23-2019, 06:57 PM
#78
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 61
Originally Posted by BlueJetDork
IOW the allocation in the CBA is the worst in the business.
We went from the worst, 2 weeks, to the worst 3 weeks and after 20 years 4 weeks, the worst.
At least we have industry leading pairings to drive QOL in between the vacation periods we are not getting while the MEC Chair is whinny to FLOPS about paring quality after telling us to vote for the TA.
Can't make the stuff up! It would be funny if it wasn't so predictable.
We went from the worst, 2 weeks, to the worst 3 weeks and after 20 years 4 weeks, the worst.
At least we have industry leading pairings to drive QOL in between the vacation periods we are not getting while the MEC Chair is whinny to FLOPS about paring quality after telling us to vote for the TA.
Can't make the stuff up! It would be funny if it wasn't so predictable.
For example, two weeks of vacation at Jetblue credits 70 hours, whereas three weeks at United credits only 68.25 hours, and three weeks at delta credits 73.5 hours.
At 20 years, four weeks of vacation at Jetblue credits 140 hours, which is industry leading.
06-23-2019, 07:13 PM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 591
We bid periods not hours. UAL, SWA, DAL etc bid periods.
A seniorish committing pilot with UAL's allocation, for instance, would have 5 or 6 periods of vacation. We have 3 until 20 years. That means instead of having a vacation essentially every other month it is one every quarter.
From zero to 10 years each pilot gets one pass in the “round” bidding system. One!!!
The credit hour comparison was just a used car salesman pitch. It also falls apart in year two, three and four. This is because as we gain longevity we don't gain an allocated week as fast as our peer. Plus the group lost almost 2000 peak slots (which is what we bid on) to a market rate allocation step table in year one alone of this charade. This is important because at 24 or 35 credit hours unless a slot is allocated it doesn't matter what it credits. You did not get one. 900 pilots lost two each in the peak periods which is when most want a vacation.
If we could bid hours then cool, 105 hours would be awesome. I'll take 20 here and 10 there and 5 over here and 30 there and 40 may be over here. But we bid periods and we have the lowest amount of periods per longevity step in the business.
A seniorish committing pilot with UAL's allocation, for instance, would have 5 or 6 periods of vacation. We have 3 until 20 years. That means instead of having a vacation essentially every other month it is one every quarter.
From zero to 10 years each pilot gets one pass in the “round” bidding system. One!!!
The credit hour comparison was just a used car salesman pitch. It also falls apart in year two, three and four. This is because as we gain longevity we don't gain an allocated week as fast as our peer. Plus the group lost almost 2000 peak slots (which is what we bid on) to a market rate allocation step table in year one alone of this charade. This is important because at 24 or 35 credit hours unless a slot is allocated it doesn't matter what it credits. You did not get one. 900 pilots lost two each in the peak periods which is when most want a vacation.
If we could bid hours then cool, 105 hours would be awesome. I'll take 20 here and 10 there and 5 over here and 30 there and 40 may be over here. But we bid periods and we have the lowest amount of periods per longevity step in the business.
Last edited by BlueJetDork; 06-23-2019 at 07:47 PM.
06-23-2019, 07:57 PM
#80
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,445
Originally Posted by BlueJetDork
We bid periods not hours. UAL, SWA, DAL etc bid periods.
A seniorish committing pilot with UAL's allocation, for instance, would have 5 or 6 periods of vacation. We have 3 until 20 years. That means instead of having a vacation essentially every other month it is one every quarter.
From zero to 10 years each pilot gets one pass in the “round” bidding system. One!!!
The credit hour comparison was just a used car salesman pitch. It also falls apart in year two, three and four. This is because as we gain longevity we don't gain an allocated week as fast as our peer. Plus the group lost almost 2000 peak slots (which is what we bid on) to a market rate allocation step table in year one alone of this charade. This is important because at 24 or 35 credit hours unless a slot is allocated it doesn't matter what it credits. You did not get one. 900 pilots lost two each in the peak periods which is when most want a vacation.
If we could bid hours then cool, 105 hours would be awesome. I'll take 20 here and 10 there and 5 over here and 30 there and 40 may be over here. But we bid periods and we have the lowest amount of periods per longevity step in the business.
A seniorish committing pilot with UAL's allocation, for instance, would have 5 or 6 periods of vacation. We have 3 until 20 years. That means instead of having a vacation essentially every other month it is one every quarter.
From zero to 10 years each pilot gets one pass in the “round” bidding system. One!!!
The credit hour comparison was just a used car salesman pitch. It also falls apart in year two, three and four. This is because as we gain longevity we don't gain an allocated week as fast as our peer. Plus the group lost almost 2000 peak slots (which is what we bid on) to a market rate allocation step table in year one alone of this charade. This is important because at 24 or 35 credit hours unless a slot is allocated it doesn't matter what it credits. You did not get one. 900 pilots lost two each in the peak periods which is when most want a vacation.
If we could bid hours then cool, 105 hours would be awesome. I'll take 20 here and 10 there and 5 over here and 30 there and 40 may be over here. But we bid periods and we have the lowest amount of periods per longevity step in the business.
I counter with emotion and also if you don't like it you must be a miserable person and should start over at United.
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