Originally Posted by BlueJetDork

We bid periods not hours. UAL, SWA, DAL etc bid periods.

A seniorish committing pilot with UAL's allocation, for instance, would have 5 or 6 periods of vacation. We have 3 until 20 years. That means instead of having a vacation essentially every other month it is one every quarter.

From zero to 10 years each pilot gets one pass in the “round” bidding system. One!!!

The credit hour comparison was just a used car salesman pitch. It also falls apart in year two, three and four. This is because as we gain longevity we don't gain an allocated week as fast as our peer. Plus the group lost almost 2000 peak slots (which is what we bid on) to a market rate allocation step table in year one alone of this charade. This is important because at 24 or 35 credit hours unless a slot is allocated it doesn't matter what it credits. You did not get one. 900 pilots lost two each in the peak periods which is when most want a vacation.

If we could bid hours then cool, 105 hours would be awesome. I'll take 20 here and 10 there and 5 over here and 30 there and 40 may be over here. But we bid periods and we have the lowest amount of periods per longevity step in the business.

Originally Posted by Xtreme87

I’m confused about what the argument is here. One week of vacation generally gets me 3 weeks off in a month. With proper bidding between months, 4 weeks off is pretty easy to do. How is this not at the top of the industry? And what else are you looking for? One month off per vacation week?

Originally Posted by PasserOGas

That is a well reasoned factual argument.

I counter with emotion and also if you don't like it you must be a miserable person and should start over at United.

Originally Posted by BlueJetDork

IOW the allocation in the CBA is the worst in the business.

We went from the worst, 2 weeks, to the worst 3 weeks and after 20 years 4 weeks, the worst.

At least we have industry leading pairings to drive QOL in between the vacation periods we are not getting while the MEC Chair is whinny to FLOPS about paring quality after telling us to vote for the TA.

Can't make the stuff up! It would be funny if it wasn't so predictable.

Originally Posted by hyperboy

1 in 4 agree with you.

Originally Posted by BlueJetDork

Jetblue pilots have to live it to understand it.

The loss to market place allocation table of the almost 2,000 peak period slots will be felt next year. All of them will be gone in the first pass. Instead of pass two and three.

A few months ago a junior FO was so excited that he got summer vacation for the first time ever. He was, "see the CBA is great". It will be his last time ever. He just did not believe it when explained to him. I was, "bitter". No, its math!

He will have to live it first.

Just like health care. The change was sold and bought as no big deal.

Then it was.

We have to be 5 years behind the learning curve just to feel good about ourselves.

Originally Posted by RiddleEagle18

You can not overlook the 35 hours credit. Yes we bid vacation weeks but our schedules are built via credit.

We get more days off total with our vacation(especially the first 5 years) than other airlines, however we just have to take those days is 2-3 bigger chunks rather than 3-4 smaller ones.

If you prefer the 3-4 smaller ones fine, but the amount of days off is the same or more with our system.


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Originally Posted by seekingblue

I don't understand the healthcare comment. Our healthcare sucks, I get that, but its always been bad. Are you saying we needed stronger language and a "Cadillac plan?"

not trying to be augmentative, just really don't understand.