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Old 09-04-2022 | 05:55 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by symbian simian
Like I said, I haven’t seen the awards. But there’s still a lot of people that are currently on the 170. I guess once the 220 fleet grows, it will go more junior. Hopefully I’m wrong.
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Old 09-05-2022 | 07:40 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
As long as they have differing types they are by definition a separate category, unlike 319/320/321. A220 and A321 pilots are NOT interchangeable. The small difference in payscale between the two certainly mitigates the effect that will have on overall seniority but for everyday practical purposes (scheduling seniority and basing) having multiple types does have an effect. Even things as trivial as ETOPS/nonETOPS have their effects. It isn’t just payscale that affects QOL, particularly if you desire to live near a certain base.
You are confused. Category doesn't mean type. I'm not EXACTLY sure of the precise definition, but it basically means narrow-body or wide-body. It CAN be further broken down into small-narrow-body and large-narrow-body, if the arbitrator thinks it's important, but frankly the A220 and A320 overlap as it is. The A220-300 has the range and capacity of the A319. Airbus will almost certainly by the time SLI arbitration begins, will have announced the long anticipated A220-500, which will have A320 capacity and range. JB is likely to have an order placed for it by then as well. And our A220-300 pays more than your A320.

An arbitrator breaking narrow-bodies into "small" and "large" is more likely if you were talking B717 vs B757-300s, not an overlapping capacity pair of types that basically pay within the distance between Chevy Chase's butt cheeks of each other.

Last edited by Bluedriver; 09-05-2022 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 09-05-2022 | 07:46 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Bluedriver
You are confused. Category doesn't mean type. I'm not EXACTLY sure of the precise definition, but it basically means narrow-body or wide-body. It CAN be further broken down into small-narrow-body and large-narrow-body, if the arbitrator thinks it's important, but frankly the A220 and A320 overlap as it is. The A220-300 has the range and capacity of the A319. Airbus at will almost certainly by the time SLI arbitration begins, will have announced the long anticipated A220-500, which will have A320 capacity and range. JB is likely to have an order placed for it by then as well. And our A220-300 pays more than your A320.

An arbitrator breaking narrow-bodies into "small" and "large" is more likely if you were talking B717 vs B757-300s, not an overlapping capacity pair of types that basically pay within the distance between Chevy Chase's butt cheeks of each other.

Plus, I believe the JBA220 pays more than the NKA320. Smaller airplane won’t be a thing.
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Old 09-05-2022 | 08:03 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Cockpit997
Plus, I believe the JBA220 pays more than the NKA320. Smaller airplane won’t be a thing.
I did say that, but exactly correct.
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Old 09-08-2022 | 11:26 AM
  #55  
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If I remember correctly, in the AS/VA mediation future orders were specifically excluded, only aircraft on property at the date the merger started. And serious question, because I can't figure it out, what date would that be for JB/NK? And upgrade times only played a small role as part of career expectations, so don't think it's going to help us at NK much. In the end nothing matters, but curious.
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Old 09-08-2022 | 03:06 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by symbian simian
If I remember correctly, in the AS/VA mediation future orders were specifically excluded, only aircraft on property at the date the merger started. And serious question, because I can't figure it out, what date would that be for JB/NK? And upgrade times only played a small role as part of career expectations, so don't think it's going to help us at NK much. In the end nothing matters, but curious.
Might be 7/28/22. But also understand that as of that date, the E190s were already announced to become Pepsi cans. So I don't believe they will be part of the SLI anyway.
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Old 09-08-2022 | 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Cockpit997
Plus, I believe the JBA220 pays more than the NKA320. Smaller airplane won’t be a thing.
For now, and it only pays more above certain years.
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Old 09-09-2022 | 03:25 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Popeye0537
For now, and it only pays more above certain years.
The APC pay scale is wrong, very wrong. The A220 at JB has a 12 year pay scale of $272.xx. The entire A220 pay scale is about ~3% below the A320 pay scale.
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Old 09-09-2022 | 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Bluedriver
You are confused. Category doesn't mean type. I'm not EXACTLY sure of the precise definition, but it basically means narrow-body or wide-body. It CAN be further broken down into small-narrow-body and large-narrow-body, if the arbitrator thinks it's important, but frankly the A220 and A320 overlap as it is. The A220-300 has the range and capacity of the A319. Airbus will almost certainly by the time SLI arbitration begins, will have announced the long anticipated A220-500, which will have A320 capacity and range. JB is likely to have an order placed for it by then as well. And our A220-300 pays more than your A320.

An arbitrator breaking narrow-bodies into "small" and "large" is more likely if you were talking B717 vs B757-300s, not an overlapping capacity pair of types that basically pay within the distance between Chevy Chase's butt cheeks of each other.
They did in United/CAL and American/USAir. The 757-200s and -300s were placed in a higher category than 737 and Airbus 319/320. At American they had 4 groups, and the lowest was E-190. Not only that the arbitrators put the The A220 is clearly not an A320 and will likely be a lower category.

This is what American’s SLI looked like in the end. (Not counting longevity)

Tier 1 777,A330 CA
Tier 2 767,757 CA
Tier 3 737, MD-80, A-320 CA
Tier 4 777,A330 FO
Tier 5 767,757 FO
Tier 6 737, MD-80, A-320 FO
Tier 7 E-190 CA
Tier 8 E-190 FO

The A-220 is an E-190 replacement and will likely be treated as a lower category than an A-320.
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Old 09-09-2022 | 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by FriendlyPilot
They did in United/CAL and American/USAir. The 757-200s and -300s were placed in a higher category than 737 and Airbus 319/320. At American they had 4 groups, and the lowest was E-190. Not only that the arbitrators put the The A220 is clearly not an A320 and will likely be a lower category.

This is what American’s SLI looked like in the end. (Not counting longevity)

Tier 1 777,A330 CA
Tier 2 767,757 CA
Tier 3 737, MD-80, A-320 CA
Tier 4 777,A330 FO
Tier 5 767,757 FO
Tier 6 737, MD-80, A-320 FO
Tier 7 E-190 CA
Tier 8 E-190 FO

The A-220 is an E-190 replacement and will likely be treated as a lower category than an A-320.
That aligns with their pay bands, which neither B6 nor NK have. The 190 at US/AA was treated basically like an RJ (group 1, as is the case with A220-100 in their pay rates). A220-300 is banded with md80/a320/737 families, ie group 2. A220-300 is the same size as an A319 (and pays more at B6 than a 321 does at NK) and is banded with other narrowbodies, not small narrowbodies. Should we break down “category” into 321, 320, 319/223 for purposes of integration then also? Sounds like a plan.
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