Jet Blue guys...
07-01-2005, 11:18 PM
#21
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: 320, Left Seat
Posts: 55
Realistic
"I didn't create our system of lopsided compensation and I never said anything about brotherhood. That is all just sentimental crap.This is not a social club, it's not church, and it's not a dating service. It's where I intend to meet my long-term financial expectations."
Everybody at $125 p/hr. So tell me are you going to limit the hours one can be paid so the 'senior pilots' don't get paid more? Just curious, how many pilots do you think make $170K per year at JB. I still aspire to be one of them. And I take it from your above quoted statement (I used the back key like you suggested) you do also.
No I do not think the comparable UA/Frontier pay is socialist they pay the pilot for what he/she flies based on seniority. I'd call it industry standard.
I never questioned your arithmetic it is spot on. Some pilots do make more than us. To bad you didn't accept a position there then you would be happy right!
"Socialism? Oooooh another scary word." Not scary just failed idea. But that discussion is not for this board.
Everybody at $125 p/hr. So tell me are you going to limit the hours one can be paid so the 'senior pilots' don't get paid more? Just curious, how many pilots do you think make $170K per year at JB. I still aspire to be one of them. And I take it from your above quoted statement (I used the back key like you suggested) you do also.
No I do not think the comparable UA/Frontier pay is socialist they pay the pilot for what he/she flies based on seniority. I'd call it industry standard.
I never questioned your arithmetic it is spot on. Some pilots do make more than us. To bad you didn't accept a position there then you would be happy right!
"Socialism? Oooooh another scary word." Not scary just failed idea. But that discussion is not for this board.
Last edited by Blue 2; 07-01-2005 at 11:21 PM.
07-02-2005, 04:54 AM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Realistic
Here. I will show you the difference:
JetBlue 3 year 320 Captain at 95 hours: $149,008 a year.
Frontier 3 year 320 Captain at 95 hours: $137,940 a year.
next:
JetBlue 3 year 320 Captain at 75 hours: $ 107,424 a year.
Frontier 3 year 320 Captain at 75 hours: $ 108,900 a year.
In other words, the Captain at JetBlue makes nearly $42,000 more per year than his compadre while the Captain at Frontier makes almost $29,000 more per year than his fellow Captain.
Sign language now:
DOOOO.....YOOUUUU....UUUUNNNDDERRRSTAAAAAND?
There's a $13,000 disparity here and it makes me think that someone is featherbeding. Featherbeding is when someone sets up a system to help themselves at the expense of others. Maybe it was the pilots who like to wax nostalgic about New Air. Yeah, the ones with a couple year's of seniority on the rest of us.
Get it?
You like this system? Fine.
I'm just looking for democracy and democracy will come whether ya'll like it or not.
JetBlue 3 year 320 Captain at 95 hours: $149,008 a year.
Frontier 3 year 320 Captain at 95 hours: $137,940 a year.
next:
JetBlue 3 year 320 Captain at 75 hours: $ 107,424 a year.
Frontier 3 year 320 Captain at 75 hours: $ 108,900 a year.
In other words, the Captain at JetBlue makes nearly $42,000 more per year than his compadre while the Captain at Frontier makes almost $29,000 more per year than his fellow Captain.
Sign language now:
DOOOO.....YOOUUUU....UUUUNNNDDERRRSTAAAAAND?
There's a $13,000 disparity here and it makes me think that someone is featherbeding. Featherbeding is when someone sets up a system to help themselves at the expense of others. Maybe it was the pilots who like to wax nostalgic about New Air. Yeah, the ones with a couple year's of seniority on the rest of us.
Get it?
You like this system? Fine.
I'm just looking for democracy and democracy will come whether ya'll like it or not.
weak,very weak.... your gonna have to do better than use this 13,000 dollar argument to "fight" or "organize" for "democracy".
"featherbeding?" so your trying to convince me and others that the payscale was set up to intentionally screw the less senior pilots. weak again.
it was set up so THE MORE YOU FLEW, THE MORE YOU GOT PAID base on years of seniority. a concept used at every airline.
some advice for you. i wouldnt use frontier as an example. that company is barely keeping their head above water thanks to "ted". theres a high probability their pay scale will be ajusted soon (downward) due to competition and $55-$60 per barrel of oil. DO-YOU-UNDERSTAND???
P.S. there is no such thing as "industry standard" anymore. the only standard that has been established the last 4 years is DECREASE IN PAY AND LOSS OF RETIREMENT. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT SLOPE??
Last edited by bluebrother; 07-02-2005 at 01:00 PM.
07-02-2005, 07:21 AM
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
I don't think you military boys understand the difference between straight pay like everybody else gets and the prmiem pay we get
I went back and compared UAL AWA Frotnier USAir and Airtran and our 95 hour boys make more than every one
our 75 hour pilots make less then every one
I'm all for straight pay
what really chaps my ass is when DB uses our 200 or so top pilots to say that we really make more than everybody else
if you stand on your head and close one eye
I went back and compared UAL AWA Frotnier USAir and Airtran and our 95 hour boys make more than every one
our 75 hour pilots make less then every one
I'm all for straight pay
what really chaps my ass is when DB uses our 200 or so top pilots to say that we really make more than everybody else
if you stand on your head and close one eye
07-03-2005, 07:44 AM
#24
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: 320, Left Seat
Posts: 55
"I don't think you military boys understand the difference between straight pay like everybody else gets and the prmiem pay we get"
Pretty broad statement. This is not a mil vs civ misunderstanding. Arithmetic is kinda easy even for those of us that stood the watch while you did it the hard way.
Pretty broad statement. This is not a mil vs civ misunderstanding. Arithmetic is kinda easy even for those of us that stood the watch while you did it the hard way.
07-03-2005, 08:26 AM
#25
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: A320 Left seat
Posts: 44
Go Bid JFK
Realistic, go bid JFK, upgrade and get a line, then you will love premium pay, don't sit at your computer and whine about your pay when YOU have the abiikity to fix the problem.
If you are selling your house because you can't pay the mortgage on LGB reserve, then that is YOUR decision, not JetBlue's or other senior pilots.
We all covet a two digit seniority number [except those who have one, and they covet a single digit one]. But face facts, fix your problems that you have the power to fix and quite trying it 'F-up' a system that works just fine for the majority of the pilots and IFC.
To get to your socialist-utopian flat pay rate would put you on the most-wanted list by 90+% of the crew at JetBlue. Maybe this is what you crave, you seem to thrive on anonymous notoriety on the pilot forums.
Wake up, face facts and fix your own problem, don't expect to fix it at your keyboard on this forum. And don't screw up the pay and life of those who take responsibilty for their decisions and keep their life in order.
Or take up a second job till you can hold a line.
If you are selling your house because you can't pay the mortgage on LGB reserve, then that is YOUR decision, not JetBlue's or other senior pilots.
We all covet a two digit seniority number [except those who have one, and they covet a single digit one]. But face facts, fix your problems that you have the power to fix and quite trying it 'F-up' a system that works just fine for the majority of the pilots and IFC.
To get to your socialist-utopian flat pay rate would put you on the most-wanted list by 90+% of the crew at JetBlue. Maybe this is what you crave, you seem to thrive on anonymous notoriety on the pilot forums.
Wake up, face facts and fix your own problem, don't expect to fix it at your keyboard on this forum. And don't screw up the pay and life of those who take responsibilty for their decisions and keep their life in order.
Or take up a second job till you can hold a line.
07-03-2005, 06:51 PM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
I'm not the only reserve friend, and how many months of 75 will the pilot being hired today have to endure as he moves his way right, left, right, left? Maybe upwards of 36 months at 75 hours? A few years from now it might equate to four total years at 75 hours. And isn't premium pay chump change at 190 rates? And what if the straight pay, cost neutral point is 85 hours? Then everybody 85 and below gets a raise. How many pilots is that?
And how many times do I have to repeat myself? I have been talking about a straight pay system like every other airline in the industry.
Finding an hourly pay rate to base the scale upon going up and down, that is cost neutral to the company.
ie: $122 1st year $123 2nd year $124 3rd year etc.
Like every other pay system we've ever been compensated under and like every other pay system listed on this web site.
How is that socialist utopia? You get paid a progressive rate for seniority and longevity. Senior guys get paid more, junior guys get paid less. Get it now?
This isn't a productive solution to you because you like the system we have but don't delude yourself that you have a majority who think like you.
Again - give it all time.
I don't post these observations because I'm trying to impress despite what you claim. I asked for and was granted this forum because there were and are countless pilots searching for just such an outlet. Because they are angry. You may not like it but there are a lot of ****ed off pilots. For many reasons - some of them with the very same reasons that I have.
Please save your "go somewhere else" cliche. Do you know how many times pilots in this industry have been given that line of bull****? Get real.
So, several months ago, a bunch of us got together and moved forward with this because we had been completely discounted by our committees and middle managers.
Now we have a forum as an attempt to hold people accountable and you have the overconfidence to come in and lay out what YOU think the issues REALLY are and how my observations are just about me and my situation.
Every single one of these issues - EVERY ONE - cuts across the airline to more and more pilots every month.
I can't believe that you have the audacity to point out what is good posting for the people on this forum. That is classic "let me tell how to act at Jetblue" and you're not gonna convince me junior! This is a business that you clearly have little experience with.
I don't have to explain to you whether I've "volunteered" or attempted change from within. The efforts have been so laughable that your suggestion for "everyone to just get involved" only shows how out of touch you are.
You know, I thought about taking a break but I think I'll spend some time commenting on your brilliant insight.
And how many times do I have to repeat myself? I have been talking about a straight pay system like every other airline in the industry.
Finding an hourly pay rate to base the scale upon going up and down, that is cost neutral to the company.
ie: $122 1st year $123 2nd year $124 3rd year etc.
Like every other pay system we've ever been compensated under and like every other pay system listed on this web site.
How is that socialist utopia? You get paid a progressive rate for seniority and longevity. Senior guys get paid more, junior guys get paid less. Get it now?
This isn't a productive solution to you because you like the system we have but don't delude yourself that you have a majority who think like you.
Again - give it all time.
I don't post these observations because I'm trying to impress despite what you claim. I asked for and was granted this forum because there were and are countless pilots searching for just such an outlet. Because they are angry. You may not like it but there are a lot of ****ed off pilots. For many reasons - some of them with the very same reasons that I have.
Please save your "go somewhere else" cliche. Do you know how many times pilots in this industry have been given that line of bull****? Get real.
So, several months ago, a bunch of us got together and moved forward with this because we had been completely discounted by our committees and middle managers.
Now we have a forum as an attempt to hold people accountable and you have the overconfidence to come in and lay out what YOU think the issues REALLY are and how my observations are just about me and my situation.
Every single one of these issues - EVERY ONE - cuts across the airline to more and more pilots every month.
I can't believe that you have the audacity to point out what is good posting for the people on this forum. That is classic "let me tell how to act at Jetblue" and you're not gonna convince me junior! This is a business that you clearly have little experience with.
I don't have to explain to you whether I've "volunteered" or attempted change from within. The efforts have been so laughable that your suggestion for "everyone to just get involved" only shows how out of touch you are.
You know, I thought about taking a break but I think I'll spend some time commenting on your brilliant insight.
Last edited by Realistic; 07-03-2005 at 08:05 PM.
07-03-2005, 09:04 PM
#27
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: A320 Left seat
Posts: 44
Temper, Temper, did I strike a nerve??
Unrealistic, you will never 'take a break', you love to see yourself in print. This site is your therapy for your anger, I suggest professional therapy. You won't infect as many others if you vent your anger to a professional therapist.
We are not 'every other airline'. If we were, we would be in the same situation that most of the others are in. We are different, and you knew that when you accepted the job.
You keep suggesting a flat pay scale, and you keep suggesting around $124 or so for first year. Is $14x75 hours = $1050 before taxes. Is this a make or break for you?? I suggest you didn't plan well for your career as an airline pilot. Don't blame jetBlue or senior pilots for your financial woes or lack of planning.
You seem to think that you have a large following that agree with your opinions. I would guess that you have many one time readers who just shake their head and log off, never to come back. Your writing style chases them away.
As I read in another post somewhere on this site, there are about ten regular readers who post on this site. I tend to agree. It may be only about five posters. My guess is that the rest read a few posts, log off and take a shower to wash off the after-effects of your negativity.
Somewere on this site I read a comment that said that one of the most important things for the jetBlue crewmembers was morale. I emphatically agree. Reading almost any of your posts would convert an optimist to a suicide statistic. If you want to improve JetBlue try changing your writing style. Maybe more readers will stick around.
Why is 'go somewhere else' a cliche?? Because YOU have heard it so many times??? You are miserable here, so go spread your misery elsewhere. I don't believe you can EVER be happy or satisfied. You got this site going so you can spread your miscontent wider and farther than ranting in the cockpit. I really feel sorry for your FO and crewmembers, you must set a really pleasant 'tone' for your flights. Were you happy at your last several jobs?? I bet not. You probably were trying to stir everyone up wherever you were.
You appear to be trying to improve what you see is wrong at JetBlue, I applaud that. But not everyone agrees with you. You say that the problems you rant about cut across the entire airline. I disagree. In fact I would suggest that most pilots here disagree.
What you see as wrong is very focused upon you and your situation that you have made for yourself. When someone disagrees with you you resort to name calling and even more anger. Get therapy.
And 'junior' LOL!! thanks, I haven't been called that for decades. I've been around, and have had the displeasure of dealing with many of your type. Your glass is always near empty, nothing is good enough, and if you won the lottery for 10 million you would spend the rest of your days complaining that you didn't win 40 million.
Good luck with your life and career
We are not 'every other airline'. If we were, we would be in the same situation that most of the others are in. We are different, and you knew that when you accepted the job.
You keep suggesting a flat pay scale, and you keep suggesting around $124 or so for first year. Is $14x75 hours = $1050 before taxes. Is this a make or break for you?? I suggest you didn't plan well for your career as an airline pilot. Don't blame jetBlue or senior pilots for your financial woes or lack of planning.
You seem to think that you have a large following that agree with your opinions. I would guess that you have many one time readers who just shake their head and log off, never to come back. Your writing style chases them away.
As I read in another post somewhere on this site, there are about ten regular readers who post on this site. I tend to agree. It may be only about five posters. My guess is that the rest read a few posts, log off and take a shower to wash off the after-effects of your negativity.
Somewere on this site I read a comment that said that one of the most important things for the jetBlue crewmembers was morale. I emphatically agree. Reading almost any of your posts would convert an optimist to a suicide statistic. If you want to improve JetBlue try changing your writing style. Maybe more readers will stick around.
Why is 'go somewhere else' a cliche?? Because YOU have heard it so many times??? You are miserable here, so go spread your misery elsewhere. I don't believe you can EVER be happy or satisfied. You got this site going so you can spread your miscontent wider and farther than ranting in the cockpit. I really feel sorry for your FO and crewmembers, you must set a really pleasant 'tone' for your flights. Were you happy at your last several jobs?? I bet not. You probably were trying to stir everyone up wherever you were.
You appear to be trying to improve what you see is wrong at JetBlue, I applaud that. But not everyone agrees with you. You say that the problems you rant about cut across the entire airline. I disagree. In fact I would suggest that most pilots here disagree.
What you see as wrong is very focused upon you and your situation that you have made for yourself. When someone disagrees with you you resort to name calling and even more anger. Get therapy.
And 'junior' LOL!! thanks, I haven't been called that for decades. I've been around, and have had the displeasure of dealing with many of your type. Your glass is always near empty, nothing is good enough, and if you won the lottery for 10 million you would spend the rest of your days complaining that you didn't win 40 million.
Good luck with your life and career
Last edited by B6Guy; 07-04-2005 at 05:31 AM. Reason: spelling
07-03-2005, 09:07 PM
#28
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: A320 Left seat
Posts: 44
If you want to make a difference,
If you want to make a difference, try changing the tone of your posts, mellow out a bit, try to be a bit positive, you will attract a lot more interest and sympathy for your concerns.
Your idea of straight pay at first glance sounds ok, untill it is realised that it would be paid for by the hardest working pilots in the company. This pay system works very well to motivate those who want to fly min schedule. I believe that it would negate the desire to fly more each month.
Good luck
Your idea of straight pay at first glance sounds ok, untill it is realised that it would be paid for by the hardest working pilots in the company. This pay system works very well to motivate those who want to fly min schedule. I believe that it would negate the desire to fly more each month.
Good luck
Last edited by B6Guy; 07-04-2005 at 05:26 AM.
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