JetBlue Latest and Greatest
01-28-2021, 12:55 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 537
Originally Posted by PotatoChip
Alright, I recently talked to a rep.
My biggest takeaway was that they are NOT selling this LOA correctly. I mean, look how pretty much all of us have reacted to it, myself included. Even some of us who never agree are in agreement. I read the email, the bullet points, and the LOA. No where in any of it did it provide business reasons why this is good for JetBlue, and thusly, us lowly pilots.
Bottom line from the rep, the business reasons are where to meat of this LOA's worth is at.
Fine. Explain that to us.
Until they do that, and do that convincingly, this won't pass. All any of us see is what we are losing, and all for 2%.
Here's the rub, a lot of the business reasons are under NDA's and therefore there isn't an appropriate way of transmitting that information to the group.
I'm not writing this to sway anyone, or put me down as a yes voter, just passing along what small amount of information I can.
I also got that PS was a complete non-starter despite several reps pushing for it, and it's zero cost to the company.
My biggest takeaway was that they are NOT selling this LOA correctly. I mean, look how pretty much all of us have reacted to it, myself included. Even some of us who never agree are in agreement. I read the email, the bullet points, and the LOA. No where in any of it did it provide business reasons why this is good for JetBlue, and thusly, us lowly pilots.
Bottom line from the rep, the business reasons are where to meat of this LOA's worth is at.
Fine. Explain that to us.
Until they do that, and do that convincingly, this won't pass. All any of us see is what we are losing, and all for 2%.
Here's the rub, a lot of the business reasons are under NDA's and therefore there isn't an appropriate way of transmitting that information to the group.
I'm not writing this to sway anyone, or put me down as a yes voter, just passing along what small amount of information I can.
I also got that PS was a complete non-starter despite several reps pushing for it, and it's zero cost to the company.
01-28-2021, 01:03 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,918
Originally Posted by copy
Easy. Any agreement without PS is a nonstarter. Any agreement allowing American Eagle to fly JB hub to hub is a nonstarter. See how that works? They can take this TA and shove it up their @$$.
This. why are we worried about their non starter. They need this not us.
01-28-2021, 01:04 PM
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,887
Originally Posted by PotatoChip
Alright, I recently talked to a rep.
My biggest takeaway was that they are NOT selling this LOA correctly. I mean, look how pretty much all of us have reacted to it, myself included. Even some of us who never agree are in agreement. I read the email, the bullet points, and the LOA. No where in any of it did it provide business reasons why this is good for JetBlue, and thusly, us lowly pilots.
Bottom line from the rep, the business reasons are where to meat of this LOA's worth is at.
Fine. Explain that to us.
Until they do that, and do that convincingly, this won't pass. All any of us see is what we are losing, and all for 2%.
Here's the rub, a lot of the business reasons are under NDA's and therefore there isn't an appropriate way of transmitting that information to the group.
I'm not writing this to sway anyone, or put me down as a yes voter, just passing along what small amount of information I can.
I also got that PS was a complete non-starter despite several reps pushing for it, and it's zero cost to the company.
My biggest takeaway was that they are NOT selling this LOA correctly. I mean, look how pretty much all of us have reacted to it, myself included. Even some of us who never agree are in agreement. I read the email, the bullet points, and the LOA. No where in any of it did it provide business reasons why this is good for JetBlue, and thusly, us lowly pilots.
Bottom line from the rep, the business reasons are where to meat of this LOA's worth is at.
Fine. Explain that to us.
Until they do that, and do that convincingly, this won't pass. All any of us see is what we are losing, and all for 2%.
Here's the rub, a lot of the business reasons are under NDA's and therefore there isn't an appropriate way of transmitting that information to the group.
I'm not writing this to sway anyone, or put me down as a yes voter, just passing along what small amount of information I can.
I also got that PS was a complete non-starter despite several reps pushing for it, and it's zero cost to the company.
The company can't need this that bad if something that costs them NOTHING until well after the crisis is over is a "non-starter".
And......
And at a minimum, the company never "needs" the ability to use American Eagle between our focus cities. They could have left that out, but didn't.
And......
And if we are really to believe this is going to result in significant growth for JB, then the growth metric targets wouldn't look like Catherine's turkey from Christmas Vacation....
The supposed "good part" of this, the "big growth" isn't in the agreement, isn't in writing, isn't guaranteed. We give up all these protections, get nothing concrete in return, and put our scope under a butchers cleaver.
Sounds like a "non-starter".
01-28-2021, 01:10 PM
Layover Master
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Seated
Posts: 4,311
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
Well......
The company can't need this that bad if something that costs them NOTHING until well after the crisis is over is a "non-starter".
And......
And at a minimum, the company never "needs" the ability to use American Eagle between our focus cities. They could have left that out, but didn't.
And......
And if we are really to believe this is going to result in significant growth for JB, then the growth metric targets wouldn't look like Catherine's turkey from Christmas Vacation....
The supposed "good part" of this, the "big growth" isn't in the agreement, isn't in writing, isn't guaranteed. We give up all these protections, get nothing concrete in return, and put our scope under a butchers cleaver.
Sounds like a "non-starter".
The company can't need this that bad if something that costs them NOTHING until well after the crisis is over is a "non-starter".
And......
And at a minimum, the company never "needs" the ability to use American Eagle between our focus cities. They could have left that out, but didn't.
And......
And if we are really to believe this is going to result in significant growth for JB, then the growth metric targets wouldn't look like Catherine's turkey from Christmas Vacation....
The supposed "good part" of this, the "big growth" isn't in the agreement, isn't in writing, isn't guaranteed. We give up all these protections, get nothing concrete in return, and put our scope under a butchers cleaver.
Sounds like a "non-starter".
Exactly. This is why I'm saying they are packaging it terribly. If there are redeeming qualities that truly help us, and the company, in a meaningful way, they need to be front and center and explained.
I did also ask about the regional hub-to-hub, and about them operating our code. I wasn't convinced with the response, which was essentially "that's not how it's supposed to work" and "I don't see that happening". Very convincing. Even if the individual really believes that, why let it in the language then?!! I just don't get it.
They have until Feb 4th to get some concrete info out to mitigate this train wreck.
01-28-2021, 01:16 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,002
Originally Posted by PotatoChip
Exactly. This is why I'm saying they are packaging it terribly. If there are redeeming qualities that truly help us, and the company, in a meaningful way, they need to be front and center and explained.
I did also ask about the regional hub-to-hub, and about them operating our code. I wasn't convinced with the response, which was essentially "that's not how it's supposed to work" and "I don't see that happening". Very convincing. Even if the individual really believes that, why let it in the language then?!! I just don't get it.
They have until Feb 4th to get some concrete info out to mitigate this train wreck.
I did also ask about the regional hub-to-hub, and about them operating our code. I wasn't convinced with the response, which was essentially "that's not how it's supposed to work" and "I don't see that happening". Very convincing. Even if the individual really believes that, why let it in the language then?!! I just don't get it.
They have until Feb 4th to get some concrete info out to mitigate this train wreck.
01-28-2021, 01:23 PM
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,887
Originally Posted by PotatoChip
Exactly. This is why I'm saying they are packaging it terribly. If there are redeeming qualities that truly help us, and the company, in a meaningful way, they need to be front and center and explained.
I did also ask about the regional hub-to-hub, and about them operating our code. I wasn't convinced with the response, which was essentially "that's not how it's supposed to work" and "I don't see that happening". Very convincing. Even if the individual really believes that, why let it in the language then?!! I just don't get it.
They have until Feb 4th to get some concrete info out to mitigate this train wreck.
I did also ask about the regional hub-to-hub, and about them operating our code. I wasn't convinced with the response, which was essentially "that's not how it's supposed to work" and "I don't see that happening". Very convincing. Even if the individual really believes that, why let it in the language then?!! I just don't get it.
They have until Feb 4th to get some concrete info out to mitigate this train wreck.
Because of how emotional this company is over profit sharing, they need a NO vote to realize it's their only way of moving forward. And that would be just a start, as tighter scope would also be required.
The company needs this. They need it for NYC slots. They need the added revenue for the operation. They need to partially eliminate a direct competitor in NYC/BOS. They need to be more attractive to NYC customers seeking a global network. In addition to pilots other needs, we also need to maintain our scope. I can guarantee you a future merger with AA is NOT off the table. And if we give up RJ scope with AA right now, when joint CBA negotiations start we will have NO claim or argument that our scope prevents RJs or is value add needing consideration. If we don't prevent AA RJs, then when merging with AA pilots our scope is nearly worthless to us in an AA merger.
At a MINIMUM, that hub to hub language should expressly prohibit RJ codesharing.
01-28-2021, 01:30 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by PotatoChip
Alright, I recently talked to a rep.
My biggest takeaway was that they are NOT selling this LOA correctly. I mean, look how pretty much all of us have reacted to it, myself included. Even some of us who never agree are in agreement. I read the email, the bullet points, and the LOA. No where in any of it did it provide business reasons why this is good for JetBlue, and thusly, us lowly pilots.
Bottom line from the rep, the business reasons are where to meat of this LOA's worth is at.
Fine. Explain that to us.
Until they do that, and do that convincingly, this won't pass. All any of us see is what we are losing, and all for 2%.
Here's the rub, a lot of the business reasons are under NDA's and therefore there isn't an appropriate way of transmitting that information to the group.
I'm not writing this to sway anyone, or put me down as a yes voter, just passing along what small amount of information I can.
I also got that PS was a complete non-starter despite several reps pushing for it, and it's zero cost to the company.
My biggest takeaway was that they are NOT selling this LOA correctly. I mean, look how pretty much all of us have reacted to it, myself included. Even some of us who never agree are in agreement. I read the email, the bullet points, and the LOA. No where in any of it did it provide business reasons why this is good for JetBlue, and thusly, us lowly pilots.
Bottom line from the rep, the business reasons are where to meat of this LOA's worth is at.
Fine. Explain that to us.
Until they do that, and do that convincingly, this won't pass. All any of us see is what we are losing, and all for 2%.
Here's the rub, a lot of the business reasons are under NDA's and therefore there isn't an appropriate way of transmitting that information to the group.
I'm not writing this to sway anyone, or put me down as a yes voter, just passing along what small amount of information I can.
I also got that PS was a complete non-starter despite several reps pushing for it, and it's zero cost to the company.
01-28-2021, 01:37 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,918
Originally Posted by PotatoChip
Exactly. This is why I'm saying they are packaging it terribly. If there are redeeming qualities that truly help us, and the company, in a meaningful way, they need to be front and center and explained.
I did also ask about the regional hub-to-hub, and about them operating our code. I wasn't convinced with the response, which was essentially "that's not how it's supposed to work" and "I don't see that happening". Very convincing. Even if the individual really believes that, why let it in the language then?!! I just don't get it.
They have until Feb 4th to get some concrete info out to mitigate this train wreck.
I did also ask about the regional hub-to-hub, and about them operating our code. I wasn't convinced with the response, which was essentially "that's not how it's supposed to work" and "I don't see that happening". Very convincing. Even if the individual really believes that, why let it in the language then?!! I just don't get it.
They have until Feb 4th to get some concrete info out to mitigate this train wreck.
that's not how it's supposed to work" and "I don't see that happening".
oh well in that case let’s do it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq_1l316ow8
01-28-2021, 01:37 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 454
Originally Posted by PotatoChip
Exactly. This is why I'm saying they are packaging it terribly. If there are redeeming qualities that truly help us, and the company, in a meaningful way, they need to be front and center and explained.
I did also ask about the regional hub-to-hub, and about them operating our code. I wasn't convinced with the response, which was essentially "that's not how it's supposed to work" and "I don't see that happening". Very convincing. Even if the individual really believes that, why let it in the language then?!! I just don't get it.
They have until Feb 4th to get some concrete info out to mitigate this train wreck.
I did also ask about the regional hub-to-hub, and about them operating our code. I wasn't convinced with the response, which was essentially "that's not how it's supposed to work" and "I don't see that happening". Very convincing. Even if the individual really believes that, why let it in the language then?!! I just don't get it.
They have until Feb 4th to get some concrete info out to mitigate this train wreck.
It doesn’t matter what the company says it WANTS to do. It matters what they CAN do.
Ever since this company started, people have been saying “they would never do that.” When will this pilot group learn? Talk to guys who have been here a long time. Premium trigger, dependability policy, old PS formula, etc. They’re Lucy with the football and we’re Charlie Brown. When will we learn?
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