JetBlue Latest and Greatest
01-28-2021, 01:45 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 537
Originally Posted by PSU Flyer
it doesn’t matter how it’s “packaged.” It matters what the TA says.
It doesn’t matter what the company says it WANTS to do. It matters what they CAN do.
Ever since this company started, people have been saying “they would never do that.” When will this pilot group learn? Talk to guys who have been here a long time. Premium trigger, dependability policy, old PS formula, etc. They’re Lucy with the football and we’re Charlie Brown. When will we learn?
It doesn’t matter what the company says it WANTS to do. It matters what they CAN do.
Ever since this company started, people have been saying “they would never do that.” When will this pilot group learn? Talk to guys who have been here a long time. Premium trigger, dependability policy, old PS formula, etc. They’re Lucy with the football and we’re Charlie Brown. When will we learn?
Remember our “industry leading” pairing construction rules...then after the CBA they they turned on the pairing sodomizer and caused all sorts of operational issues and degradation to QOL. Union response: we didn’t think they’d do that. Ok...get it in writing. The writing is all we have to go on. Thinking and wanting and verbal promising is great and all...but put it in writing. We have to plan on every worst case allowable by this TA and the CBA to happen.
01-28-2021, 01:49 PM
Layover Master
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Seated
Posts: 4,311
Originally Posted by PSU Flyer
it doesn’t matter how it’s “packaged.” It matters what the TA says.
It doesn’t matter what the company says it WANTS to do. It matters what they CAN do.
Ever since this company started, people have been saying “they would never do that.” When will this pilot group learn? Talk to guys who have been here a long time. Premium trigger, dependability policy, old PS formula, etc. They’re Lucy with the football and we’re Charlie Brown. When will we learn?
It doesn’t matter what the company says it WANTS to do. It matters what they CAN do.
Ever since this company started, people have been saying “they would never do that.” When will this pilot group learn? Talk to guys who have been here a long time. Premium trigger, dependability policy, old PS formula, etc. They’re Lucy with the football and we’re Charlie Brown. When will we learn?
My point is from their perspective. If they (the MEC) want this thing passed, they have a done a horrible job presenting it.
Who knows, maybe they presented it as is so we would vote it down.
I'll certainly be the first to say that I want IRON CLAD language preventing regionals flying B6 codes, especially hub-hub (or FC-FC).
01-28-2021, 01:59 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,512
JetBlue Latest and Greatest
About that “growth”
They can not grow the airline beyond 2021 ASM for 4 years with no consequences! None
If the company wants it they can have the first 4 years of the agreement for free and then say ah I guess it’s over now.
Without growing at all.
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01-28-2021, 02:10 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 122
Originally Posted by RiddleEagle18
About that “growth”
They can not grow the airline beyond 2021 ASM for 4 years with no consequences! None
If the company wants it they can have the first 4 years of the agreement for free and then say ah I guess it’s over now.
Without growing at all.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not only that, but let’s say they don’t meet the metric, so now they have the additional 2 years of wind down. So no matter what happens folks, this is at a bare minimum a 7 year deal!
01-28-2021, 02:45 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 983
Originally Posted by goose15
Not only that, but let’s say they don’t meet the metric, so now they have the additional 2 years of wind down. So no matter what happens folks, this is at a bare minimum a 7 year deal!
01-28-2021, 03:18 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 705
Originally Posted by copy
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Remember our “industry leading” pairing construction rules...then after the CBA they they turned on the pairing sodomizer and caused all sorts of operational issues and degradation to QOL. Union response: we didn’t think they’d do that. Ok...get it in writing. The writing is all we have to go on. Thinking and wanting and verbal promising is great and all...but put it in writing. We have to plan on every worst case allowable by this TA and the CBA to happen.
Remember our “industry leading” pairing construction rules...then after the CBA they they turned on the pairing sodomizer and caused all sorts of operational issues and degradation to QOL. Union response: we didn’t think they’d do that. Ok...get it in writing. The writing is all we have to go on. Thinking and wanting and verbal promising is great and all...but put it in writing. We have to plan on every worst case allowable by this TA and the CBA to happen.
01-28-2021, 03:25 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: blueJet
Posts: 4,511
Reading this TA, and seeing all the possible ways we can get screwed the way it is written... and then voting “Yes” anyway because you think everything will turn out OK?
That’s like reading a terrible TAF for your destination and then agreeing to depart anyway without alternate fuel because “I think maybe it’ll turn out OK”
That’s not how a professional pilot acts.
That’s like reading a terrible TAF for your destination and then agreeing to depart anyway without alternate fuel because “I think maybe it’ll turn out OK”
That’s not how a professional pilot acts.
01-28-2021, 03:46 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 1,188
Talked to my rep this afternoon and he said that no one signed any NDA’s so
ask away. I wasn’t happy with his answer what so ever but pretty much didn’t like it and voted yes on it so the pilot group could vote it down.
ask away. I wasn’t happy with his answer what so ever but pretty much didn’t like it and voted yes on it so the pilot group could vote it down.
01-28-2021, 04:10 PM
New Hire
Joined APC: Jan 2021
Position: NO! LOA 13
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by Al Czervik
Just FYI:
“Wetleases are prohibited in our contract under 1.C.1b. However, JetBlue’s Scope is silent on the wetlease issue. Meaning, while the Company would need APA’s permission to wetlease aircraft, JetBlue’s MEC does not have same rights. In theory, this means any wetleasing would only be on the JetBlue side. An example of how a wetlease would apply in this Code-share is: an AA airplane shows up at a JetBlue gate, carries a B6 flight number and is operated by an AA crew. JetBlue sells the seats and keeps all the revenue from the flight and pays AA for the plane and the crew. There are more examples of this in freight world where you will see a Polar/Atlas 747 flying around with a Qantas or Cathay Pacific flight number. You can see why this is prohibited in our contract.“
“Wetleases are prohibited in our contract under 1.C.1b. However, JetBlue’s Scope is silent on the wetlease issue. Meaning, while the Company would need APA’s permission to wetlease aircraft, JetBlue’s MEC does not have same rights. In theory, this means any wetleasing would only be on the JetBlue side. An example of how a wetlease would apply in this Code-share is: an AA airplane shows up at a JetBlue gate, carries a B6 flight number and is operated by an AA crew. JetBlue sells the seats and keeps all the revenue from the flight and pays AA for the plane and the crew. There are more examples of this in freight world where you will see a Polar/Atlas 747 flying around with a Qantas or Cathay Pacific flight number. You can see why this is prohibited in our contract.“
Notwithstanding anything in the JB-AA Commercial Agreement or the Agreement to the contrary:
i. The Company and American shall not operate any flying for each other under any form of Wet-Leasing Arrangement.
ii. The Company Code shall not be placed on any Codeshare Flight(s) under any form of Wet-Leasing Arrangement.
IE wet leases would be ok as long as it’s part of the NEA for our part anyways.
01-28-2021, 04:32 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 983
At least I’m hearing resounding no’s across the board from everyone I’ve talked to. I’d say 5-10% leaning yes. Ironically, it’s the Jr guys who are about to get chopped (including myself) that are the hardest No’s....that’s somewhat reassuring. Its all these guys out on incentive leave that I wonder about. I wish we could vote this piece sh!t down tonight.
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