JetBlue Latest and Greatest
02-02-2021, 06:46 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,918
Originally Posted by Dish Jockey
Thank you to seekingblue for sharing your yes arguments. I am trying my best to keep an open mind.
That being said, the LOA allows for 35% of of flying (focus to focus, focus to Caribbean) to be outsourced to an AA regional (or to a post bankruptcy mainline). The union and the company claims that this will not happen. Thank you. Would you kindly put that in writing?
I love Jetblue and want the best for the company. Often times our interests our aligned. Sometimes not. This is just a business relationship. Nothing personal. 7 (or 11) years is a long time. I’m getting old.
That being said, the LOA allows for 35% of of flying (focus to focus, focus to Caribbean) to be outsourced to an AA regional (or to a post bankruptcy mainline). The union and the company claims that this will not happen. Thank you. Would you kindly put that in writing?
I love Jetblue and want the best for the company. Often times our interests our aligned. Sometimes not. This is just a business relationship. Nothing personal. 7 (or 11) years is a long time. I’m getting old.
Exactly. If they are adamant about not doing that, well just write it down. That should be easy enough. Does anyone think the companies agreement with AA has areas where they leave stuff ambiguous and say oh I doubt AA would do this or that. Heck I bet our ELT members employment contract even has rock solid language.
Did we not learn from our scheduling section where we didn’t put in some language because (the company would never do that it wouldn’t make sense). Yeah we all know exactly how that worked out.
The only thing they won’t do is what our contract says they can’t and even that is debatable.
02-02-2021, 06:54 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: blueJet
Posts: 4,512
Yup. I wonder if the company or ALPA first suggested the 35/65 split. They put it in there for a reason. Can you imagine being a fly on the wall when that got rolled out?
Company: “Here’s our initial offer. Instead of keeping 100%, Jetblue keeps at least 65% of our 1.F.8 flying. And at least 0% of the International stuff.”
ALPA: “Hmmm, that will be a really tough sell for the membership. Maybe even a deal breaker. You’re not really going to do that, are you?”
Company: “Of course not. We showed you the 10-year plan, remember? This is just in case we decide to change the plan.”
ALPA: “Hmmm, OK I guess. But wouldn’t this deal go through smoother if that Scope concession wasn’t in it? If you aren’t planning on needing it?”
Company: “Here’s 2%. We good?”
Company: “Here’s our initial offer. Instead of keeping 100%, Jetblue keeps at least 65% of our 1.F.8 flying. And at least 0% of the International stuff.”
ALPA: “Hmmm, that will be a really tough sell for the membership. Maybe even a deal breaker. You’re not really going to do that, are you?”
Company: “Of course not. We showed you the 10-year plan, remember? This is just in case we decide to change the plan.”
ALPA: “Hmmm, OK I guess. But wouldn’t this deal go through smoother if that Scope concession wasn’t in it? If you aren’t planning on needing it?”
Company: “Here’s 2%. We good?”
02-02-2021, 09:03 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 534
Originally Posted by Dish Jockey
Thank you to seekingblue for sharing your yes arguments. I am trying my best to keep an open mind.
That being said, the LOA allows for 35% of of flying (focus to focus, focus to Caribbean) to be outsourced to an AA regional (or to a post bankruptcy mainline). The union and the company claims that this will not happen. Thank you. Would you kindly put that in writing?
I love Jetblue and want the best for the company. Often times our interests our aligned. Sometimes not. This is just a business relationship. Nothing personal. 7 (or 11) years is a long time. I’m getting old.
That being said, the LOA allows for 35% of of flying (focus to focus, focus to Caribbean) to be outsourced to an AA regional (or to a post bankruptcy mainline). The union and the company claims that this will not happen. Thank you. Would you kindly put that in writing?
I love Jetblue and want the best for the company. Often times our interests our aligned. Sometimes not. This is just a business relationship. Nothing personal. 7 (or 11) years is a long time. I’m getting old.
02-02-2021, 09:46 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 534
Originally Posted by Boomer
Yup. I wonder if the company or ALPA first suggested the 35/65 split. They put it in there for a reason. Can you imagine being a fly on the wall when that got rolled out?
Company: “Here’s our initial offer. Instead of keeping 100%, Jetblue keeps at least 65% of our 1.F.8 flying. And at least 0% of the International stuff.”
ALPA: “Hmmm, that will be a really tough sell for the membership. Maybe even a deal breaker. You’re not really going to do that, are you?”
Company: “Of course not. We showed you the 10-year plan, remember? This is just in case we decide to change the plan.”
ALPA: “Hmmm, OK I guess. But wouldn’t this deal go through smoother if that Scope concession wasn’t in it? If you aren’t planning on needing it?”
Company: “Here’s 2%. We good?”
Company: “Here’s our initial offer. Instead of keeping 100%, Jetblue keeps at least 65% of our 1.F.8 flying. And at least 0% of the International stuff.”
ALPA: “Hmmm, that will be a really tough sell for the membership. Maybe even a deal breaker. You’re not really going to do that, are you?”
Company: “Of course not. We showed you the 10-year plan, remember? This is just in case we decide to change the plan.”
ALPA: “Hmmm, OK I guess. But wouldn’t this deal go through smoother if that Scope concession wasn’t in it? If you aren’t planning on needing it?”
Company: “Here’s 2%. We good?”
02-03-2021, 03:39 AM
On Reserve
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 17
Per the last email from the MEC:
“Regardless of the TA vote, the Company may still implement a codeshare agreement with American under the terms of Section 1.”
Compare the differences
Section 1 (current CBA):
The Company may enter into or maintain a Commercial Agreement with a Domestic Air Carrier that is a new partner and is similar in size (e.g., Alaska Airlines) or smaller (measured by annual ASMs) than the Company in the relevant Comparison Period, provided:
a. The Company operated at least 3% more aircraft block hours in that Comparison Period than in the relevant Base Period, and
b. In each one-year period commencing first with the calendar month that includes the effective date of the Commercial Agreement and then commencing with the anniversary month of the first such period, the Company operates at least 1% more aircraft block hours than in the previous one-year period.
LOA 13:
b. The number of block hours operated by the Company in the 2024 Calendar Year must be at least the greater of the following amounts:
i. Three (3) block hours greater than the number of block hours operated by the Company in the 2021 Calendar Year;
ii. Two (2) block hours greater than the number of block hours operated by the Company in 2022 Calendar Year; OR
iii. One (1) block hour greater than the number of block hours operated by the Company in the 2023 Calendar Year.
What sounds better to you? Which is better for me sitting at the bottom of this seniority list? I like section 1. Please don’t sell me out. Vote accordingly!
“Regardless of the TA vote, the Company may still implement a codeshare agreement with American under the terms of Section 1.”
Compare the differences
Section 1 (current CBA):
The Company may enter into or maintain a Commercial Agreement with a Domestic Air Carrier that is a new partner and is similar in size (e.g., Alaska Airlines) or smaller (measured by annual ASMs) than the Company in the relevant Comparison Period, provided:
a. The Company operated at least 3% more aircraft block hours in that Comparison Period than in the relevant Base Period, and
b. In each one-year period commencing first with the calendar month that includes the effective date of the Commercial Agreement and then commencing with the anniversary month of the first such period, the Company operates at least 1% more aircraft block hours than in the previous one-year period.
LOA 13:
b. The number of block hours operated by the Company in the 2024 Calendar Year must be at least the greater of the following amounts:
i. Three (3) block hours greater than the number of block hours operated by the Company in the 2021 Calendar Year;
ii. Two (2) block hours greater than the number of block hours operated by the Company in 2022 Calendar Year; OR
iii. One (1) block hour greater than the number of block hours operated by the Company in the 2023 Calendar Year.
What sounds better to you? Which is better for me sitting at the bottom of this seniority list? I like section 1. Please don’t sell me out. Vote accordingly!
02-03-2021, 05:04 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: B6
Posts: 1,047
Originally Posted by RamRod
Per the last email from the MEC:
“Regardless of the TA vote, the Company may still implement a codeshare agreement with American under the terms of Section 1.”
Compare the differences
Section 1 (current CBA):
The Company may enter into or maintain a Commercial Agreement with a Domestic Air Carrier that is a new partner and is similar in size (e.g., Alaska Airlines) or smaller (measured by annual ASMs) than the Company in the relevant Comparison Period, provided:
a. The Company operated at least 3% more aircraft block hours in that Comparison Period than in the relevant Base Period, and
b. In each one-year period commencing first with the calendar month that includes the effective date of the Commercial Agreement and then commencing with the anniversary month of the first such period, the Company operates at least 1% more aircraft block hours than in the previous one-year period.
LOA 13:
b. The number of block hours operated by the Company in the 2024 Calendar Year must be at least the greater of the following amounts:
i. Three (3) block hours greater than the number of block hours operated by the Company in the 2021 Calendar Year;
ii. Two (2) block hours greater than the number of block hours operated by the Company in 2022 Calendar Year; OR
iii. One (1) block hour greater than the number of block hours operated by the Company in the 2023 Calendar Year.
What sounds better to you? Which is better for me sitting at the bottom of this seniority list? I like section 1. Please don’t sell me out. Vote accordingly!
“Regardless of the TA vote, the Company may still implement a codeshare agreement with American under the terms of Section 1.”
Compare the differences
Section 1 (current CBA):
The Company may enter into or maintain a Commercial Agreement with a Domestic Air Carrier that is a new partner and is similar in size (e.g., Alaska Airlines) or smaller (measured by annual ASMs) than the Company in the relevant Comparison Period, provided:
a. The Company operated at least 3% more aircraft block hours in that Comparison Period than in the relevant Base Period, and
b. In each one-year period commencing first with the calendar month that includes the effective date of the Commercial Agreement and then commencing with the anniversary month of the first such period, the Company operates at least 1% more aircraft block hours than in the previous one-year period.
LOA 13:
b. The number of block hours operated by the Company in the 2024 Calendar Year must be at least the greater of the following amounts:
i. Three (3) block hours greater than the number of block hours operated by the Company in the 2021 Calendar Year;
ii. Two (2) block hours greater than the number of block hours operated by the Company in 2022 Calendar Year; OR
iii. One (1) block hour greater than the number of block hours operated by the Company in the 2023 Calendar Year.
What sounds better to you? Which is better for me sitting at the bottom of this seniority list? I like section 1. Please don’t sell me out. Vote accordingly!
We are voting on LOA13 (LOA 12 is already agreed to by the company) If you give away your scope and flying to others then who is better protected? JetBlue ALPA pilots!
02-03-2021, 05:29 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 453
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
True Ramrod.
Did I miss the part of the discussion where a codeshare must be with an airline that is "similar size or smaller"?
Did I miss the part of the discussion where a codeshare must be with an airline that is "similar size or smaller"?
02-03-2021, 05:55 AM
On Reserve
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 17
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
True Ramrod.
Did I miss the part of the discussion where a codeshare must be with an airline that is "similar size or smaller"?
Did I miss the part of the discussion where a codeshare must be with an airline that is "similar size or smaller"?
The scope committee email from the 31st says;
“So, is the Northeast Alliance (NEA) a codeshare or a joint venture? The answer is that it is something in between, which is essentially an enhanced codeshare agreement.
The codeshare agreement between JetBlue and American:
1. Is industry standard and supported by conventional IATA language and references IATA Resolution 780 Interline Traffic Agreement as a basis for the language of the codeshare agreement. (If you are not asleep yet, I recommend reading IATA 780, it’s better than melatonin.)”
We can’t go back on LOA 12 anymore, it’s done. We must protect our CBA going forward.
LOA 13 is a strait up concession to section 1.
02-03-2021, 06:02 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 918
Originally Posted by RamRod
Per the last email from the MEC:
“Regardless of the TA vote, the Company may still implement a codeshare agreement with American under the terms of Section 1.”
Compare the differences
Section 1 (current CBA):
The Company may enter into or maintain a Commercial Agreement with a Domestic Air Carrier that is a new partner and is similar in size (e.g., Alaska Airlines) or smaller (measured by annual ASMs) than the Company in the relevant Comparison Period, provided:
........
“Regardless of the TA vote, the Company may still implement a codeshare agreement with American under the terms of Section 1.”
Compare the differences
Section 1 (current CBA):
The Company may enter into or maintain a Commercial Agreement with a Domestic Air Carrier that is a new partner and is similar in size (e.g., Alaska Airlines) or smaller (measured by annual ASMs) than the Company in the relevant Comparison Period, provided:
........
1.F.7 and 1.F.8 is what's on the table (LOA13)
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