P-3Bubba

BlueDriver is right to say that we deliver a product and service that equals the quality of the Legacies. However, there are economies of scale to consider. I don't advocate that we rollover and hope that management will give us a sub-standard CBA. As I've said before, I don't believe management is the yellow fanged ghoul waiting for us behind our closet doors.


Management has consistantly adjusted our "peer" set to accommodate their wage argument. That was I think their weakest leverage set when it came to establishing the PEA.

Lest we not forget what happens when you "think" that you can outsmart and outlast the legacy.

<"Independence Air started life as Atlantic Coast Airlines on December 15, 1989, operating feeder services as United Express for United Airlines and Delta Connection for Delta Air Lines.[3] After United withdrew the contract when the ACA labor and management would not agree to the concessions it requested, Atlantic Coast reinvented itself as low-cost carrier Independence Air.>"

This is being too big for your britches

<"Three more aircraft were sold or repossessed and in November 2005, FLYi, Inc., their parent company, declared bankruptcy.[24] The company cited rising costs in the airline industry as the reason its low-cost strategy did not succeed.>"

Thats called getting snuffed out.

-Bubs

Bluedriver

Sorry Bubba, you're being illogical. It doesn't matter if DL or UAL is bigger, we only have 3400 pilots to pay, not 12,000. What matters is our profit margin, it's HIGHER.

We can afford, and should expect full market rates of pay, benefits and work rules.

Bluedriver

OK, near statistical tie with SWA for most recent 12 months. JB margins higher than biggest 3.

Std Deviation

Your argument suggested an adjustment for size and scale. I believe that's going to be the fundamental argument the company will deviate on. IMO they won't adjust for that. If we get it then great but I believe the Airbus pilot is an Airbus pilot irrespective of market capitalization and capacity is going to be a tough road. One that is going to get financially ugly for all parties.

Bluedriver

It looked to me that you were saying we weren't going to get Legacy wages, presumably because we are smaller. I disagree because we have higher profit margins. Seems like we are miscommunicating or misunderstanding each other because your last post doesn't make sense to me.

Std Deviation

No that's exactly my premise - we won't get legacy wages because of our size. I get what you're saying on profit margins but that's a tenuous variable. What if our profit margins drop 30% tomorrow? (Not unrealistic - let's say accident that scares people away). Do we now change our tactics because of market conditions. I think this is a good argument to have I just don't see profit margins as the main thesis of negotiation.

Bluedriver

Ok, so we are 1/5th the size of DL and UAL, so we will get 1/5th hourly rate?

Does JetBlue get to pay less for gas or Coca Cola because we are not as big?

Our profit margin supports a peer standard wage, and size has nothing to do with it.

SWA is comparably much smaller, are their rates lower than DL and UAL?

BlueJetDork

SWA and Alaska who benchmark DAL and UAL.

Bluedriver

However, pattern bargaining would require us to look at contract recency and industry trends as well. Alaska may be a peer, but their contract is very old and will be up for renegotiation soon in a very different industry landscape.

So not nearly as relevant as more recently signed contracts.

SWA, AA, UAL, DL, UPS and FedEx are more appropriate benchmarks for a new contract.

slimothy

Please stop assuming that 1 mil guy speaks for all mil guys. I whole heartedly disagree with bubs. My apps are open and updated regularly because there is more in life than a contract. As a [soon to be] 2nd year guy, I see how my seniority has advanced compared to my buddies who have been at legacies for as long or less, and I realize that my QOL at my desired base will never be what it would be elsewhere. The company is not offering much to offset this fact. For somebody in my position "starting over" elsewhere means little.