pilotpayne

That’s such a loaded question. With so many variables. It’s also the internet and it tends to lend itself to negativity.

Now I might get killed for the but it seems like our pilot group tends to be very defeatists. Now that could be because management has never done what they have said or it’s just the type we hire. If you read some of the Southwest stuff over there on going to HA the attitude is they are going to go out there and push out Hawaiian. Our group would never think like that. It would be oh we are going to get crushed. It’s actually an interesting thing and I’m not sure if it because of HR or our leadership or just the history of our airline but it seems like the default for our pilot group is everything will fail. Again that could just be trying to protect ourselves from disappointment or just history.

We are definitely very hard on our company but I think if you really look at most posts here it’s because we want JetBlue to do well. That’s what kills me. Management could have workforce that is really behind them but right now we are just treated as a cost that they have to deal with.

The roots of the company were built on I guess you could say true believers and we have simply become some corporate entity. It’s like what burning man turned into. That rebellious idea is long since dead, replaced with corporate speak.

I still like JetBlue and don’t regret coming here but it could be so much better and it wouldn’t be hard to do.

pilotpayne

So expand on that why not just have JetBlue order them why moxie? (Respectfully)

antbar01

If you actually have a choice of major airline jobs and don’t just wind up with one, you have an embarrassment of riches and should appreciate that.

Negativity exists at every carrier; each individuals’ perception of how badly they’ve been screwed and their social aggregate determines the flavor and quantity of that negativity.

B6 is negative now, but in ten years who knows?

BluesClues

Yeah Moxy has nothing to do with us, if you read the original press releases from when we announced the order we already have the option for 60 more A220’s starting in 2025.

http://mediaroom.jetblue.com/investor-relations/press-releases/2018/07-10-2018-211604881

JetBlue (NASDAQ:JBLU) today announced it has ordered 60 Airbus A220-300 aircraft – previously called the Bombardier CS300 – for delivery beginning in 2020, with the option for 60 additional aircraft beginning in 2025.

Southerner

You continue to confuse "hiring" with "added to the list." He didn't say added to the list.

Regardless of how many are added to the list, a new hire cares about how many are hired because everyone hired goes below them, and most (not all, but most) of those who leave are above him.


That being said, I haven't heard this rumor. Seems a bit high to me.

Bluedriver

Both Moxy and JB placed the original order the the A220-300 at essentially the very same time, and the same model. They also both firmed up the order at essentially the same time.

As to why? If JB wanted to disguise their intentions of growing faster in the future/accelerate growth until some later time, for whatever reason, this would be one way to secure early delivery slots without disclosing it early. As I said, this is one of my working theories. Or Moxy is JB's future West coast codeshare partner. I don't believe Moxy is what David has said it is.

Bluedriver

Those options are for AFTER 2024. That's not the time frame I'm thinking of, yet.

pilotpayne

So here is a question. Wall St hates growth or at least from JetBlue if they had their way we wouldn’t grow at all. (I know it’s because growth costs money and adds capacity and all that) could this be a way to do it on the cheap and away from Wall St?

It’s an interesting theory especially with DN and RH still talking.

Bluedriver

DN and the possibility of his recent activities possibly leading his way back to JB reinforce my suspicions.

To answer your question, it depends. If the Moxy order is a ruse to secure additional early delivery slots that are actually intended for JB (JB can aquire them from DN at any time), and JB remains independent and publicly traded, then no. It wouldn't be a way to grow cheaper, just a way to delay revealing an accelerated growth plan to Wall Street or JB's competitors.

If in the process of transferring the A220 orders is part of DN taking JB private again (a very real possibility with his recent moves to aquire capital), then still not a way to grow cheap, but Wall Street would no longer be any factor at all.

If Moxy is used to start a West coast network via JB's virtually unlimited domestic codeshare language, then yes.

I don't pretend to know exactly what is happening, but again, I do NOT believe Moxy is what DN has said it is.

BeatNavy

No. Reread. Slowly. I know you country bumpkins have trouble with math so maybe get some scratch paper and take notes. My number is specifically “added to the list” with specified hiring numbers to achieve that. The hypothetical was 2500 “added to the list” IF JB kept all 60 190s on top of the 60 A220s (net gain of 145 aircraft at 16 pilots per plane) PLUS CBA staffing. Accounting for attrition at 75 a year, that still doesn’t get to that 3100 number being thrown around.

And my point is JB isn’t keeping 60 e190s on top of all 60 A220s, but even if they did there is no possible way they hire 3100 (or anywhere close to that for a net result of adding 2500 to the list after attrition) without coming up with some new airframes.

Then the whole end of my statement you quoted says my prediction is JB adds 1400 to the list in the next 5ish years with hiring at most 2,000. See those two numbers? How do you get that 600 delta with no attrition? You don’t. I am clearly not confusing “added to the list” with hiring. You’re just too dense to figure that out.

You used to sound semi-intelligent when you posted here, but your (lack of) comprehension is killing me.

Time to eat some crow buddy.