JetBlue Latest and Greatest
06-05-2019, 03:22 PM
#8121
SDQ Base Chief
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 320 CA
Posts: 5,588
Originally Posted by pilotpayne
Hey interesting stuff I prefer reading this than the standard APC posts.
It would take DN a lot of moxie to take JetBlue private. The other interesting thing is I think and flyby posted it before is the chairman of the board Peterson is coming up on mandatory retirement due to age.
With MSG gone there is definitely a slow alignment going on at the top. I wonder how much it will change whatever strategy they have.
It would take DN a lot of moxie to take JetBlue private. The other interesting thing is I think and flyby posted it before is the chairman of the board Peterson is coming up on mandatory retirement due to age.
With MSG gone there is definitely a slow alignment going on at the top. I wonder how much it will change whatever strategy they have.
06-05-2019, 03:39 PM
#8122
SDQ Base Chief
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 320 CA
Posts: 5,588
BD, first off thanks for putting this all down. I love the long form journalism and I completely agree with your assessment of JB and the industry.
This is likely the biggest advantage for Moxy, low cost and being a startup. Huge benefit.
I like this concept of taking our non-Mint transcons and giving them a boost with west coast connecting traffic (even if that traffic would be low yield)
Would Moxy’s future network be viable with JB’s cost structure? I genuinely don’t know, but if so then would it also be compatible with other large players in the industry? Are we facing another VX situation where we get outbid, or wind up paying too much for Moxy? On a similar note, if we are looking to merge with a lower cost structure player then why not NK and get an instant fortress hub in FLL?
I really would like to see this happen for many reasons. Remove Wall Street from the board room, reinvigorate employee morale, implement more ambitious growth plans. Yes, Neeleman hates pilots and is a terrible day-to-day manager, and he brought us close to bankruptcy already. But I think those traits are well known by everyone now, including himself. His strengths have the potential to catapult JetBlue into a global brand, but only if he can understand and let his weaknesses be kept in check. We’d still need a strong Board of Directors to do this.
I’ll get blasted, but that’s a good plan B (Or is it Plan A?). We need people on JetBlue planes, and we have zero market penetration on the west coast point of sale. Alaska has the opposite problem. We do very very well on transcons vs them.
I still say that Neeleman is a shrewd businessman and always looking for opportunity. If he gets a nice buyout offer for his A220 orders before the airline even gets operational then I think he would take it, no matter who it is from. If he built a nice west coast network with Moxy and got a buyout from someone then he would take it no matter who it was from.
There is only one thing JetBlue can offer him that no other airline can.
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/63863964/game-of-thrones-poster_85627-1920x1200.0.jpg)
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
Moxy, on the other hand, could enter the West coast at year 1 start-up costs, for the entire airline. Everything at year 1, using the LOWEST cost CASM aircraft on the planet. DN, being a serial successful airline start-up guy, for the right return on investment (an agreement to buy Moxy for a great price after 5-10 years) or himself possibly having a return to JB plan would be able and willing to fund this West coast Moxy start-up as a JB partner. This would relieve JB of the cost and margin killing problem of creating a West coast network via low-fare stimulation as well as not burden JB with the additional CAPEX this network would require. This also allows JB to concentrate on it's trans-atlantic aspirations. JB could never do both a trans-atlantic expansion and a West coast expansion simultaneously, as you well know.
In addition to year 1 costs and the A220 industry leading CASM/customer experience, DN/Moxy would also benefit greatly by being fed traffic from JB's well established East coast network. That's a big advantage, and allowed by the pilots unlimited domestic codeshare scope clause.
There are no prefect solutions for a West coast focus city available, so Moxy would likely have to hub at ONT, SJC, LAS, PHX, SAN and/or PDX. Those aren't LAX or SFO or SEA, but those gates aren't (probably not) available to anyone. So it would be a secondary airport strategy.
Don't misunderstand me, as others have done. I'm not saying Moxy replaces JB on BOS-SJC or similar. But JB might fly BOS-SJC and connect that customer onto Moxy to get to ABQ or IDA or GTF. In other words, Moxy would start an intra-west coast network fed, in-part, by connections from arriving JB aircraft into Moxy's focus city(cities).
There are no prefect solutions for a West coast focus city available, so Moxy would likely have to hub at ONT, SJC, LAS, PHX, SAN and/or PDX. Those aren't LAX or SFO or SEA, but those gates aren't (probably not) available to anyone. So it would be a secondary airport strategy.
Don't misunderstand me, as others have done. I'm not saying Moxy replaces JB on BOS-SJC or similar. But JB might fly BOS-SJC and connect that customer onto Moxy to get to ABQ or IDA or GTF. In other words, Moxy would start an intra-west coast network fed, in-part, by connections from arriving JB aircraft into Moxy's focus city(cities).
Probably to eventually merge with JB after the West coast network is established via ultra-low start-up CASM.
Or DN is gathering capital as we speak to take JB private and combine his A220 orders into JB's.
Or the unlimited domestic codeshare is intended for an Alaska partnership (the company demanded unlimited domestic codeshare for SOMETHING, I promise you that much).
What I do know is that JB and DN ordered the same exact model aircraft, at virtually the exact same time, firmed up the orders at virtually the exact same time, and all of this happened exactly when the pilot contract/scope clause was finalized and at the same time the company probably knew what it wanted to do with Europe. And as stated, I don't believe what DN has told us about his plans for Moxy (Moxy could just as well be symbolic of his plan to take JB private again).
Long post, sorry.
All my opinion, of course.
Long post, sorry.
All my opinion, of course.
There is only one thing JetBlue can offer him that no other airline can.
06-05-2019, 04:59 PM
#8123
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 591
Originally Posted by Benstein
Right, I’ve seen nothing but negativity from this forum, but heard largely great things from pilots out on the line. I’m weighing options for the future and can’t figure out where I stand with JetBlue. I’d like to ask all of you a question to help me with this.
If you had the option to do most of your life over, knowing the things you know now, would you return to JetBlue? Why or why not?
If you had the option to do most of your life over, knowing the things you know now, would you return to JetBlue? Why or why not?
Other major airline pilots don't leave to come to JetBlue!
06-05-2019, 05:36 PM
#8124
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by BlueJetDork
Jetblue pilots leave to go to other majors!
Other major airline pilots don't leave to come to JetBlue!
Other major airline pilots don't leave to come to JetBlue!
06-05-2019, 07:11 PM
#8125
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 591
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
Wasn't there some launch (or pre-launch) United lady that came back in '99 or '00 to jetBlue and commuted from SFO?
Then quit UAL and then wanted back and was then told to pound sand who then went to Stanford and now is in upper management.
Sounds scaleable!
Pilots don't leave UAL to join Bluejet they leave Bluejet to become United.
06-05-2019, 07:28 PM
#8126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 478
Originally Posted by BlueJetDork
You mean the furloughed UAL pilot who was hired by the lifeboat called BlueJet.
Then quit UAL and then wanted back and was then told to pound sand who then went to Stanford and now is in upper management.
Sounds scaleable!
Pilots don't leave UAL to join Bluejet they leave Bluejet to become United.
Then quit UAL and then wanted back and was then told to pound sand who then went to Stanford and now is in upper management.
Sounds scaleable!
Pilots don't leave UAL to join Bluejet they leave Bluejet to become United.
06-05-2019, 07:39 PM
#8127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 591
Originally Posted by 360KIAS
I have flown with at least 4 CAs who were furloughed from a legacy that didn't go when called. Guess they know what being shunned actually feels like, and didn't want to risk it a second time.
The majority went back.
We have only a few that stayed.
06-05-2019, 07:50 PM
#8128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 478
Originally Posted by BlueJetDork
That is ready stupid.
The majority went back.
We have only a few that stayed.
The majority went back.
We have only a few that stayed.
06-05-2019, 08:19 PM
#8129
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 591
Originally Posted by 360KIAS
Perhaps stupid to you, who maybe never lived through a furlough. But for them, it made more sense to stay. To each his/her own.
The AA guys that stayed did not get longevity when on furlough and were senior here.
DAL most if all went back. We had a uber low double-digit guy go back to DAL as an FO.
UAL most all went back.
USAirways some stayed since they were first hired here and were bottom there and strange here. Misfit toy island type strange!
A couple of LOAs (not furloughed) from Airways went back and one stayed and to this day wished he went back.
Band of Blue Airways went back.
Jetblue has not furloughed since we just got the language but in 2008 we were very close to triggering the "no furlough clause" in our PEA.
Very close!
Since the domino effect of 9/11 ended I have never heard of a UAL/AA/HAL/DAL/SWA/ALA/UPS/Fedex or a VA pilot coming to Bluejet.
Ever! We have probably lost a thousand to them!
That was the point Skippy!
06-05-2019, 09:25 PM
#8130
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 534
Originally Posted by BlueJetDork
UAL most all went back.
Since the domino effect of 9/11 ended I have never heard of a UAL/AA/HAL/DAL/SWA/ALA/UPS/Fedex or a VA pilot coming to Bluejet.
When I was brand new here, one of these guys made a memorable impression (as I was weighing whether to keep my apps out or not). This guy was definitely NOT a huge “JetBlue person” (lol) and with that I asked why he turned it down. And it basically came down to the commute. But I’m like it’s just a short hop to Newark and returning with something like 8 years United seniority??? He countered with still a commute, still gotta have a crash pad, etc.
But my thinking was (and is), if it truly was that much better there, he’d would’ve gone back? But to be fair, I’m not sure he was truly content with his decision.
Also, agreed folks don’t go big six to JetBlue. But it’s also accurate to say we have a number of pilots with legacy resumes who never applied to the legacies.
Last edited by Gordie H; 06-05-2019 at 09:57 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
