nuball5

No they don’t need to be publicly outed. Ask Spirit pilots how that worked out for them with that website they created for that specific purpose.

jamesholzhauer

Did they have to pay money in damages? Were they forced to work on days off? We’re they forced to pick up open time? No, no, and no. Did they lose leverage in negotiations? That’s debatable, but I’m in the camp of “not really.”

nuball5

They absolutely lost leverage....PBS says hi. You wanna try that stunt again? It wouldn’t help our cause, the selfish people that wanted premium open time at Spirit still did their thing and it just turns other pilots against each other....which is what management wants. If it’s debatable” to you, do you believe it’s worth the risk? Spirit ended up with a Jetblue -1 contact. Do you think a TRO would earn us Delta +1?

jamesholzhauer

PBS was coming and was absolutely not related to “the list.” To say/insinuate otherwise is foolish. Neither management nor alpa blamed PBS coming on the lawsuit. And some pilots there were already turned against each other...hence why the list existed in the first place. If anything, it put negative pressure on “the helpers.” But there are pilots everywhere on either side of opposing issues. Jetblue has plenty of those. Hell many jetblue pilots couldn’t even get a lanyard on in a labor dispute to show unity...that also divided the group...but eventually a decent amount of unity (the whole point of them) was visible and there was pressure to wear it. Lots of generally anti-alpa guys even started to wear it. I’m not saying one way or another whether it’s worth the risk...there are too many factors to say. Nor am I saying publishing a list is a good idea. If I were to risk something, I’m not sure a list would be where I add risk. But their list didn’t really negatively affect much, if anything, in the outcome of their CBA, which is my point. To say otherwise is to spread fear of a big bad TRO, which historically, when slapped on a pilot group, hasn’t resulted in much. Fines are rarely collected, people don’t go to jail, and it often unifies a pilot group even more when a company sues them. Look at AA mechanics right now. They just got hit with a TRO and they aren’t tucking their tail like many jetblue pilots did/do whenever fear is brought up (like at the roadshows with respect to time, JB outsourcing, the economy, etc.). Back to SPA chokers website and TRO...I don’t think it lost them much leverage, but it also didn’t gain them much. Spirit was never going to get a great CBA. Just like JetBlue was never going to get delta +1. Could they have done better without the TRO? Maybe. They could maybe have done better with it or without it. Just like JetBlue could have done better than number 6 if negotiations were pushed further/harder. No one will ever know, though, so to debate that now is beating a dead horse. But don’t spread fear about spirit’s lawsuit/TRO...that had nothing to do with them getting a lagging CBA.

nuball5

I thought SPA management included PBS after the TRO, but it’s been over a year. Maybe a Spirit pilot can chime in. Even so, hard to know without being in the negotiating room what effect it caused and like you said beating a deadhorse.

jtrain609

Please don't ever volunteer with the union.

jamesholzhauer

Thanks for the input. Anything of value to add related to the discussion, or want to debate anything I said?

GuppyPuppy

Yep. I like picking up a VDA here and there when it suits me. However, I most certainly don't count on or depend on it.

As for doing them during a labor dispute...why don't we just ask Captain "I made $490k last year" (E190) if he'll continue to VDA/RSA during a dispute like he did last year? Or, is that not "respecting his culture"?😉

I need a hug!😁

Gup

jtrain609

No, it'd be a waste of my time, since you won't be listening.

jamesholzhauer

You should work for CNN.