The US economy has come to a standstill
03-30-2020, 07:43 AM
#51
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Originally Posted by majorpilot
To you and everyone like this:
Put a dollar figure on YOUR life. Start there. What are YOU worth?
Take a moment, really try. What do you make? Who is dependent on you? What value do YOU add to our shared existence?
Then move to your closest family members. What’s Grandma worth? Mom? Uncle Joe? Junior?
When you’ve done that, post it. BE the example. Let’s see YOUR analysis. That will give us a starting point. We can decide how far off you are. Who knows, you might be on to something.
Are YOU up for your own challenge? Put a value on YOUR life and those of YOUR loved ones, and put it here.
When you do that, we can have a conversation. We are waiting.
Put a dollar figure on YOUR life. Start there. What are YOU worth?
Take a moment, really try. What do you make? Who is dependent on you? What value do YOU add to our shared existence?
Then move to your closest family members. What’s Grandma worth? Mom? Uncle Joe? Junior?
When you’ve done that, post it. BE the example. Let’s see YOUR analysis. That will give us a starting point. We can decide how far off you are. Who knows, you might be on to something.
Are YOU up for your own challenge? Put a value on YOUR life and those of YOUR loved ones, and put it here.
When you do that, we can have a conversation. We are waiting.
1. Fundamental liberties. Everyone loses many of their constitutional rights for the duration because someone else *might* get sick and die? We do not have a constitutional requirement to sacrifice almost everything for the benefit of others. The moral debate is separate and will play out in the political arena.
2. Even more importantly, economic malaise (especially severe malaise) will extract it's own toll in suffering, health, and death. Hard to quantify that, but IMO it will very quickly outweigh the misery of COVID. You actually can quantify suicide deaths, and if you kill the economy for ten years you're going to be looking at hundreds of thousands of additional suicides (a quick glance at the statistics tells you that).
And if the economic problems lead to a big war somewhere, all bets are off in the death and suffering department. The US military would be front and center in almost any major conflict (geopolitical interests and/or treaties), but the real toll would likely be on the civilian side.
If you haven't lived through or studied some historical disruptions, it's easy to take the "Pax Americana" for granted.
03-30-2020, 08:01 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
Originally Posted by majorpilot
Yes, guess what happens when we ignore the lookout yelling “iceberg”, insist that it’s “fake news”, that the lookout is part of a crew plot to discredit the captain, and that it’s “under control.” We hit the iceberg. Now it’s all mitigation.
Guess what? The same leadership team that brought the iceberg hit is leading the mitigation! Think they’ll whiff it? Better hope not....
Or, let’s stay all over them and ensure that we power out as best we can using science, experts, and learning.
Well done, gents indeed. Let’s vote the responsible parties out in November...all of them.
Guess what? The same leadership team that brought the iceberg hit is leading the mitigation! Think they’ll whiff it? Better hope not....
Or, let’s stay all over them and ensure that we power out as best we can using science, experts, and learning.
Well done, gents indeed. Let’s vote the responsible parties out in November...all of them.
03-30-2020, 08:04 AM
#53
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by majorpilot
Yes, guess what happens when we ignore the lookout yelling “iceberg”, insist that it’s “fake news”, that the lookout is part of a crew plot to discredit the captain, and that it’s “under control.” We hit the iceberg. Now it’s all mitigation.
Guess what? The same leadership team that brought the iceberg hit is leading the mitigation! Think they’ll whiff it? Better hope not....
Or, let’s stay all over them and ensure that we power out as best we can using science, experts, and learning.
Well done, gents indeed. Let’s vote the responsible parties out in November...all of them.
Guess what? The same leadership team that brought the iceberg hit is leading the mitigation! Think they’ll whiff it? Better hope not....
Or, let’s stay all over them and ensure that we power out as best we can using science, experts, and learning.
Well done, gents indeed. Let’s vote the responsible parties out in November...all of them.
03-30-2020, 08:05 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Posts: 327
Well Bolsonaro (Brazil president) was advocating that his country return back to normal because people want to work and shutting down is far more damaging than the virus. He tweeted videos and messages of this and surprisingly they were “censored” by twitter because of the spread of “wrong information.” A state officials message deleted. Who controls the media again? This is the problem.
03-30-2020, 08:07 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,170
Originally Posted by Burt123
Well Bolsonaro (Brazil president) was advocating that his country return back to normal because people want to work and shutting down is far more damaging than the virus. He tweeted videos and messages of this and surprisingly they were “censored” by twitter because of the spread of “wrong information.” A state officials message deleted. Who controls the media again? This is the problem.
2 - Twitter is a private company.
03-30-2020, 08:09 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 472
Originally Posted by majorpilot
To you and everyone like this:
Put a dollar figure on YOUR life. Start there. What are YOU worth?
Take a moment, really try. What do you make? Who is dependent on you? What value do YOU add to our shared existence?
Then move to your closest family members. What’s Grandma worth? Mom? Uncle Joe? Junior?
When you’ve done that, post it. BE the example. Let’s see YOUR analysis. That will give us a starting point. We can decide how far off you are. Who knows, you might be on to something.
Are YOU up for your own challenge? Put a value on YOUR life and those of YOUR loved ones, and put it here.
When you do that, we can have a conversation. We are waiting.
Put a dollar figure on YOUR life. Start there. What are YOU worth?
Take a moment, really try. What do you make? Who is dependent on you? What value do YOU add to our shared existence?
Then move to your closest family members. What’s Grandma worth? Mom? Uncle Joe? Junior?
When you’ve done that, post it. BE the example. Let’s see YOUR analysis. That will give us a starting point. We can decide how far off you are. Who knows, you might be on to something.
Are YOU up for your own challenge? Put a value on YOUR life and those of YOUR loved ones, and put it here.
When you do that, we can have a conversation. We are waiting.
You missed the point. I dont have a position on this topic right now that is of any value to anyone. I have waxed and waned continually; and from my own confused position I have reflected and realised that I am just as full of BS as everyone else on here.
Hey if I valued my life Id say.....maybe $200k. My family may say more. My insurance company certainly has a figure. Who cares what I think about MY value to society....afterall its likely over inflated. In the grand scheme of things the world will go on if I dissapear.
Im not talking individual worth. Im talking big numbers. Lives in general, not names and faces.
Point being YOU nor anyone else can claim that we should shut down the economy at all (or unknown) cost. At the same time no one can claim that we should take a free range approach without knowing the true cost.
Engage with the problem at hand rather than taking an extreme view based on fear and the unknown. Im not saying your wrong at all.... Im just saying that you have made a big call based on a feeling. As has the onther end of the spectrum.
Valuing life sux... But its done all the time. Seatbelts in planes cost money yeah, but all passangers get a lap sash. Aviation safety costs money yeah? The list goes on.... The differenece this time is that it is visceral, rapid and wide spread.
03-30-2020, 08:18 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by AirBear
At today's White House briefing the 2 Doctors discussed the models they've run on the virus. With max precautions that most follow we'll still lose 100,000 to 200,000 (currently at around 2500 and over 1000 of those just in NY). Dropping the precautions or widespread ignoring of them will raise the death toll to 1.6M - 2M. They mentioned the peak is still about 2 weeks away. Not sure if they were talking about places where the virus is already running rampant or the entire country.
I'm not sure the $2.2T stimulus is even going to make a dent in the economic damage being done. But opening everything back up is going to be very costly in lives lost.
I'll put a link to the briefing below. It should start at 1:46 with Dr. Birx. Then the President mentions the lower end of expected deaths. Dr. Birx does mention they used multiple independent models.
https://youtu.be/PlyZMGIntGY?t=6251
I'm not sure the $2.2T stimulus is even going to make a dent in the economic damage being done. But opening everything back up is going to be very costly in lives lost.
I'll put a link to the briefing below. It should start at 1:46 with Dr. Birx. Then the President mentions the lower end of expected deaths. Dr. Birx does mention they used multiple independent models.
https://youtu.be/PlyZMGIntGY?t=6251
03-30-2020, 08:38 AM
#58
Banned
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,192
Originally Posted by majorpilot
Yes, guess what happens when we ignore the lookout yelling “iceberg”, insist that it’s “fake news”, that the lookout is part of a crew plot to discredit the captain, and that it’s “under control.” We hit the iceberg. Now it’s all mitigation.
Guess what? The same leadership team that brought the iceberg hit is leading the mitigation! Think they’ll whiff it? Better hope not....
Or, let’s stay all over them and ensure that we power out as best we can using science, experts, and learning.
Well done, gents indeed. Let’s vote the responsible parties out in November...all of them.
Guess what? The same leadership team that brought the iceberg hit is leading the mitigation! Think they’ll whiff it? Better hope not....
Or, let’s stay all over them and ensure that we power out as best we can using science, experts, and learning.
Well done, gents indeed. Let’s vote the responsible parties out in November...all of them.
Either way the fact that his approval rating is higher than it's ever been should tell you what the American people think.
Originally Posted by contrails12
it’s almost as if half the nation lives in some type of fantasy land unbound by hard truths and facts
03-30-2020, 08:46 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 234
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
As I recall that 'captain' also pushed for the first travel bans from the affected areas long before anyone else. He was even attacked by the usual suspects.
Either way the fact that his approval rating is higher than it's ever been should tell you what the American people think.
Either way the fact that his approval rating is higher than it's ever been should tell you what the American people think.
03-30-2020, 08:50 AM
#60
Banned
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,192
Originally Posted by BKbigfish
Rally ‘round the flag effect. Presidential approval ratings always get a bump during a national crisis. The fact that his approval rating is still so low should tell you something.
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