GA2Jets

The issue is that there are many *otherwise qualified* women and people of color who have never been exposed to aviation, can't afford it, or don't imagine they could truly become a pilot. No one is suggesting we insist they be pilots if they can't handle it, but that we make sure everyone has an opportunity to show whether they are or aren't qualified. Having money shouldn't be a qualification to become a pilot.

Excargodog

What, in your opinion, should having money BE a qualification for?

LabDad06

There are ways to become a pilot without having money. I didn't have the money so I went through the military to fly. A lot of the pilots I knew didn't start out as officers, but enlisted who eventually became officers to fly. It didn't take money to go that route, just desire and determination. I know a lot of pilots who didn't have the money so they got loans. There's also grants and scholarships available. Money can be a barrier to becoming a pilot, which is also true of many other professions, but there are ways around it if you have the desire and determination.

With that said I'm all for helping out people I know who have an interest in aviation, as is the case with a few former flight attendants of mine, who are in fact women and minorities. Giving them advice and suggestions, writing letters of recommendation for their grant and scholarship essays they're submitting. And I do think diversity for the sake of diversity isn't the way to go with safety in mind. Think passengers with their families, with their children, want the best qualified pilots up front, or those who checked a box?

As for job apps I think the name, race, sex, and high school should be left off applications (or hidden). Make apps as blind as you possibly can. Get rid of identifying information and call them in for interviews based off their ability, past positions and experience. Once you have them in the room then identifying information can be used to determine any sort of discrimination in hiring practices based on who is hired and who is not, when they're all qualified - or else they wouldn't be there.

GogglesPisano

So we're agreed.

50% of nurses, schoolteachers, cosmetologists and home healthcare workers should be male. No more and no less.
50% of firefighters, construction workers and bricklayers should be female. No more and no less.
61% of professional athletes should be white -- in every sport and on every team. No more and no less.

Soon the majority of lawyers will be female. This obviously needs to be fixed.


And if a certain group has no interest in any field, they should be encouraged to conform, and given scholarships based on their identity in order to conform. At the expense of other groups. To achieve peak equity utopia.

This guy will always explain it better than anyone on these boards ...

​​​​​​https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7VKlApo5xc

GA2Jets

Somewhere around 5% of pilots are women. So if someone has an explanation for why that is simply inevitable that, I'd love to hear it. It bears considering, why is that the case? It has to do with representation, informing people about being pilots, fighting some ingrained stereotypes, and yes in some cases money.

If it were more like 40% of pilots were women, we might be having a different discussion. But I don't know how anyone can justify the number being that low as being simply a question of qualifications, as if women can't get qualified inherently. The same goes for people of color.

GogglesPisano

Why is that necessarily a bad thing?

Only 9% of nurses are men. Should we do something about that?

If you watched the video of Jordan Peterson he explains with insightful clarity why people choose various occupations. And there is very little we can do about it. Ask the Swedes -- the most progressive people on the face of the planet -- what happened after they tried to engineer their society based on gender equity in various occupations. (Hint: 20 years later the results were the exact opposite of what left-leaning social scientists had predicted.)

I'd like to see an example of a high school teacher or principal admonishing a talented, driven student that they "can't be a pilot (lawyer, doctor ...)"

Let people do their own thing.

GA2Jets

People will be allowed to do their own thing, it's a matter of outreach and representation. When 95% of a group is male, or female for that matter, it is inherently somewhat exclusive. Like, yes I think we should be encouraging men to be nurses, absolutely. Forcing them? No. It's not almost equal, it's nowhere even close.

GogglesPisano

What exactly do you mean by "outreach and representation?" If you mean career day, then we agree.

But if you mean scholarships based on race or gender and hiring based on quotas? We will disagree.

LabDad06

It isn't simply a question of qualifications. Have you considered that many women have no desire to be pilots? That they do not value a long term career that takes them away from home and away from their families?

I was texting a friend about a week ago if she was going to pursue becoming an architect, which was originally her dream job. She's in a related field now with enough experience in her position to be able to become an architect without needing additional schooling, just a few tests/exams. She said "not sure if I want it enough... being an architect takes me away from family, mentally and physically. I want to be here for my girls as much as I can. A job I can leave at 4:30 each day and not stress about too much after hours is best for me and my family."


Preschool and kindergarten teachers 97.5% women
Speech language pathologists 97.5% women
Dental hygienists 97.1% women
Secretaries and admin assistants 94.6% women
Childcare workers 94.4% women
Nurse practitioners 94% women
Dental assistants 93.3% women
Medial assistants 92.9% women
Hairdressers, cosmetologists 92.4% women
Medical records and heath ITs 92.1% women
Payroll and timekeeping clerks 90.7% women
Receptionists and information clerks 90.1% women
Registered nurses 90% women
Licensed practical and licensed vocational nurses 90% women
Chart: The percentage of women and men in each profession - The Boston Globe

Are men not qualified to do these jobs? Some are good, high paying careers. Or do they choose not to do them?

Air Guitar

add Thomas Sowell to the mix and you can call yourself well informed