Downfall the case against Boeing
03-22-2022 | 12:21 PM
#81
New Hire
Joined: Mar 2022
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>>>>“Just look at the auto industry in the US to see where Boeing will end up if it continues. Constant bail outs and worse products. 🤦♂️“
I can’t recall another time in my decades alive that cars were better. Cars now are safer, quieter, more comfortable, more economical, better handling, and better equipped.
I can’t recall another time in my decades alive that cars were better. Cars now are safer, quieter, more comfortable, more economical, better handling, and better equipped.
03-22-2022 | 01:14 PM
#82
Clean it up - make it BIG
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 248
Likes: 5
From: B737NG forward-facing aft lav
03-22-2022 | 01:34 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,573
Likes: 283
From: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
But autopilot monkeys are what operates much of the global air transport fleet. That's just the way it is, and no amount of teeth gnashing will change it one bit. If BCA was very selective as to who they sold the max to, would they gotten away with this? Quite possibly. It would have manifested eventually for sure, with a single point of failure. But likely without any fatalities and then it would have just been an AD, not an existential crisis. But that's not really a realistic approach to business now is it? Especially given the competition...
We can count ourselves fortunate that we have enough cultural and institutional inertia here in the US that we won't be downgrading to MPL any time soon... even if airlines have to pay for primary training.
We can count ourselves fortunate that we have enough cultural and institutional inertia here in the US that we won't be downgrading to MPL any time soon... even if airlines have to pay for primary training.
03-22-2022 | 01:35 PM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,573
Likes: 283
From: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
03-22-2022 | 01:39 PM
#85
Banned
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 8,831
Likes: 499
kind of a meaningless point. Boeing creating a failure mode and pilots just hand-waving it expecting to just train out the problem is HORRIBLE design.
03-22-2022 | 01:56 PM
#86
Clean it up - make it BIG
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 248
Likes: 5
From: B737NG forward-facing aft lav
But autopilot monkeys are what operates much of the global air transport fleet. That's just the way it is, and no amount of teeth gnashing will change it one bit. If BCA was very selective as to who they sold the max to, would they gotten away with this? Quite possibly. It would have manifested eventually for sure, with a single point of failure. But likely without any fatalities and then it would have just been an AD, not an existential crisis. But that's not really a realistic approach to business now is it? Especially given the competition...
We can count ourselves fortunate that we have enough cultural and institutional inertia here in the US that we won't be downgrading to MPL any time soon... even if airlines have to pay for primary training.
We can count ourselves fortunate that we have enough cultural and institutional inertia here in the US that we won't be downgrading to MPL any time soon... even if airlines have to pay for primary training.
"...in Indonesian simulators, there are sometimes seven in there: two pilots flying, one instructing and four others standing up and logging the time."
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/m...x-crashes.html
03-22-2022 | 03:53 PM
#87
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 425
Likes: 5
Easy there Charles Lindbergh, I’m sure they were trying to trim. But in the 737 (maybe other aircraft), if you are applying significant force on the yoke in the opposite direction of the trimmed condition (ie nose down trim and pulling back very hard on the yoke), the trim wheel is very difficult, if not impossible to move without releasing the back pressure in this instance. I’ve flown a variety of aircraft in my life, and I’m not aware of any other aircraft to which releasing the pressure on the yoke/stick was a requirement to move the trim. I suppose if you’ve flown the 737 you’re entire life, you’d be aware of it. But its not instinctual or natural. And maybe they thought that putting the AP on would help the out-of-trim situation, as it has its own servo. JMO
03-22-2022 | 03:57 PM
#88
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 425
Likes: 5
03-22-2022 | 05:08 PM
#89
Banned
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 8,831
Likes: 499
03-22-2022 | 05:37 PM
#90
— No Relief On Scope —
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 4,538
Likes: 309
From: B737 Left Seat
Didn’t they have the autopilot on pretty much immediately after takeoff? If I remember (haven’t read it in a long time), they trained to put the autopilot on very quickly after takeoff—much sooner than 737 operators around here at least. Unless I’m in complicated/extra high workload ops, I’m usually hand flying up to around 10K. Also, if everything goes to hell the second the flaps are up…throttle back and get the flaps back out to 1. But maybe a 200 hour pilot wouldn’t think that way. You know…flying stuff.
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