Downfall the case against Boeing
03-10-2022 | 08:59 AM
#51
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[QUOTE=Extenda;3386448]I’m pretty sure Defazio knows how the system works and was trying to simplify an explanation of it for the layman.[/Did
Did Defazio get his information from Don Lemon?. Was it a black hole that took it down? Just asking for friend.
Did Defazio get his information from Don Lemon?. Was it a black hole that took it down? Just asking for friend.
03-10-2022 | 09:27 AM
#52
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do you use trim to pull the nose up and push the nose down? No. You use the control column and it moves the elevator. That is how you control pitch. As flight conditions changed forces on the control column change. Trim is used to reduce those forces, not control pitch.
For aircraft to be certified control control column forces have to increase approaching a stall to warn pilots and hopefully keep them from stalling. There are about a hundred other things as well. What can’t happen is the controls getting lighter. That is what was happening in the MAX. The controls were getting lighter. So MCAS commands nose down trim to increase the control force, not command a nose down pitch.
news flash the Speed Trim system commands trim changes quite often during certain phases of flight. Does it make the nose track up and down? No, it doesn’t.
For aircraft to be certified control control column forces have to increase approaching a stall to warn pilots and hopefully keep them from stalling. There are about a hundred other things as well. What can’t happen is the controls getting lighter. That is what was happening in the MAX. The controls were getting lighter. So MCAS commands nose down trim to increase the control force, not command a nose down pitch.
news flash the Speed Trim system commands trim changes quite often during certain phases of flight. Does it make the nose track up and down? No, it doesn’t.
03-10-2022 | 12:36 PM
#53
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Well said. That's exactly it. That's called "negative longitudinal stability", and it's a deal-breaker for certification.
The electronic workaround (MCAS) was clever but poorly executed, starting with the single point of failure, pilot-side-only AOA source, and ending with the "invisible system" that pilots had no idea.
The electronic workaround (MCAS) was clever but poorly executed, starting with the single point of failure, pilot-side-only AOA source, and ending with the "invisible system" that pilots had no idea.
03-10-2022 | 02:44 PM
#54
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From: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
MCAS was a subsystem, a subsystems of the Speed Trim System. The STS has several other modes besides MCAS. They all fed off one AOA because that is all that was required. The STS was not considered a safety critical system and malfunctions were not rated greater than hazardous.
03-10-2022 | 05:01 PM
#56
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Joined: Nov 2005
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From: 757/767 Capt
It was also produced by Rory Kennedy, RFK’s granddaughter. So not too political..Surprise DeFazio is portrayed as a hero defending innocent passengers from the evil Boeing company. It’s also no surprise that the woke Kennedy never mentions or places a smidgeon of blame on the pilots. BTW if you think “Downfall” was missing key points or didn’t include certain facts,, DO NOT read this book. “Flying Blind” by Peter Robison. A total hit piece on Boeing and every Republican lawmaker and Presidents. His socialist leanings are evident from the very beginning of the book, and his technical knowledge is pathetic. He actually writes about torquing a rivet!
03-10-2022 | 06:01 PM
#57
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From: 1900D CA
You guys do realize that the Netflix documentary was made for the general public and not 737 Typed pilots?
I thought it was fairly well done considering they were trying to cover a variety of issues
I thought it was fairly well done considering they were trying to cover a variety of issues
03-19-2022 | 10:20 PM
#58
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From: Power Isosceles
With 2000 hours in the 737NG, I believe this documentary was well done. Like a previous poster mentioned, it was produced for the general public and not those with a 737 type rating. Boeing should be ashamed of itself for allowing this gross normalization of deviation. Hopefully they can get their act together and return to a position of dominance in the aviation industry, with an unwavering commitment to safety.
03-20-2022 | 05:14 AM
#60
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From: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
With 2000 hours in the 737NG, I believe this documentary was well done. Like a previous poster mentioned, it was produced for the general public and not those with a 737 type rating. Boeing should be ashamed of itself for allowing this gross normalization of deviation. Hopefully they can get their act together and return to a position of dominance in the aviation industry, with an unwavering commitment to safety.
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