RJSAviator76

Yes, it is pretty similar. It was all a huge battle of egos. Originally in our bankruptcy, Mesa (JO) wanted to be Aloha Express or something like that and replace some of our flights. Some didn't think it was a good idea, and we told Mesa to go packing. If we agreed to enter into a code-share with Mesa and allow them to fly as Aloha Express, who knows... maybe I'd still be flying 737NG's across the Pacific. Perhaps there wouldn't have been this massive fare war. I don't know all the details. But in any case, it was a battle of egos, and Aloha lost... well, the employees anyway.

I followed TSA/GoJet debacle as it was unfolding and was disgusted with the whole thing. I do remember that the issue at stake wasn't TSA ALPA, but APA scope clause, so another certificate had to be formed anyway to accommodate 70-seat United Express flying. Just like Aloha vs. Go!, it was a battle of egos between TSA MEC and Hulas. Unfortunately, TSA ALPA lost and as a consequence, GoJet is now considered a separate airline from Trans States. Crappy turn of events...

Here's how these two situations are similar when it comes to employees:

Mesa pilots fought their whole Freedom battle and accepted a really crappy contract to secure all of their flying under one umbrella. This enabled their management to come to Hawaii and do what they did. I can't blame Mesa pilots for flying their bids in Hawaii. I blame their unethical management. However, how easy would it be to blame Mesa crews, and take out our anger on them? The difference is... most people who've been around the block know better than to take out their anger and frustrations on poor schmucks trying to make a living. Although go! was there to put Aloha employer under, do you know what Aloha did to go! pilots? We were hiring them...

Now... as far as GoJet, TSA MEC lost their battle when they refused to accept a crappy contract in order to secure their flying. You can say it was a battle of egos in that TSA MEC refused to accept ALPA National opinion that they should secure this flying under one list first. In any case, just like with the original Freedom guys, one can understand some anger towards the original GoJet cadre. But blaming GoJet pilots hired after the legal battle was over, and particularly those hired in 2008 or 2009 after all the job losses makes about as much sense as blaming go! pilots for the demise of Aloha Airlines.

That's why I take a big issue with hypocrites who are way too quick to blame other pilots for their misfortunes and yet fail to see the big picture.

DublinFlyer

Actually guys, I have to say I'm sorry. While I may not agree with G7, I will not give anyone any grief over a jumpseat again. I thought about this long and hard today - which is why I haven't said anything else. There are a lot of things I could reply to, but I'm not going to as it would absolutely go nowhere. I think I have a pretty positive outlook on our industry, and I try to help out whenever I can. I don't think I have all the answers, and I don't think I'm hot ****. I'm just another CRJ FO, and that doesn't make me anything special. I'm very grateful to have a job and I try not to take it for granted. If I came across in any other way - I apologize, and I will try to remember the things that have been written in this thread.

Purpleanga

Don't worry DUB, you don't have to apologize to us. Mesa is no doubt one of the worst companies but they are at least a legitimate operation. They are not a union busting airline formed for that sole purpose. Mesa pilots have endured almost a decade of abuse and they are not lowering the bar, it was forced upon them by JO in earlier concessions like when the alter ego freedom was formed and they merged the list. At first I was hard on you guys for approving that TA but considering what is happenin with Mesa now it was actually a good thing to do as your company IS really not doing well.

Now in our case at TSA. Our MEC was just told that we'd have to give in more conessions because TS has NO MONEY. Now what did Hulas just do? They announced more airplanes, 6, for Gojet. How sick is that? And people still have the guts to come on here and defend that place. Still they haven't said anything other than what a scab would say and they know it. Let's hope it becomes a reality when our union takes action and turns them into official scabs. For their sake, I hope it's going to be a different outcome and at least we can get back what is ours.

By the way, PAUSE, if you have time to crawl out of that rock, what are you guys thinking about the single list? I mean, you guys don't have anything against TSA guys right??????????????????? It's just a job and your taking it right? Nothing against us....... So when the time comes will you be OK with one list so that you can justify your only argument for going to GJ was not to screw TSA pilots????

RJSAviator76

Hey purple... really, what's your background? Were you one of the lucky ones hired through a bridge program or through RJ transition course or something along those lines?

See, the world goes far beyond Trans States and GoJet. Maybe not your world, but everyone else's does. I tried to tell you why people go to GoJet, and it has nothing to do with Trans States or screwing you out of upgrade or job. Make an official action, go on strike and establish a picket line... but man, DO SOMETHING if you feel that strongly about it. Right now, you're making yourself, your fellow pilots, your organization look like a bunch of pansy whiners... and if I know anything about Trans States, they're far from it.

Recognize the fact that in 2008, thousands of GOOD ALPA pilots were laid off when their airlines shut down. You had no picket line, no struck work defined, no recruitment ban, NOTHING of the sort. To muddy things up, ALPA would send us communications with information who's hiring and how to apply there.

To clear things up a bit for you - there are 20,000 hour ATA 757 captains looking for a job. They have no airline go back to... and very few places are hiring.

In light of all of the above, I gotta ask:

1) Do you really think these pilots wouldn't honor a picket line by Trans States? Do you know anything about the 570 at UAL?

2) Stop and think objectively... why would ALPA suggest furloughees apply to GoJet?

Purpleanga

They probably will honor.... but why don't we all ask PAUSE? Will they do anything to help their "family"? As far as your second question, it is illegal for a union to prohibit members from going to a union busting carrier out side of the union representation, this case ALPA. GJ is teamsters, albeit not even the airline division, but they can't tell them not to go because there is no basis, they just list them as a place that is hiring that is it. If you read the latest ALPA mag, GJ is mentioned a few times as a union busting airline.

And if you want to think objectively.... why would one need approval or blessing from their union to go to a certain airline in the first place? Unless there is something off with that airline. Would you ask ALPA if it's OK to from Aloha to Skywest??

jeforte

I think we'd still like to know your background.

Purpleanga

I'm the one who you'll be stabbing in the back if you take that job, unless you already have. Don't worry, I can't do much about GJ but the union can and they will. Good luck to you if you're there now, hopefully you won't become a SCAB by the end of the year. Have a nice career dealing with your fellow pilots, todays regional pilots will be tomorrow's major pilots.

RJSAviator76

I haven't read the latest ALPA rag, but I'll tell you this much... GJ is about as scab as Continental. I'm sure you would want them to honor your picket line if you had one, or even walk the line with you. As such, I strongly oppose any alienation of GoJet pilots, especially ones hired in the last couple years as it only stands to work against you. Once again... do you know anything about UAL's 570? Might want to read about them... GoJet could, in theory, become your version of the 570, especially considering the demographics of their pilot group. As such, treating them like dirt is only potentially screwing your own self.


ALPA would never endorse going to a scab airline, nor would they advertise job openings at a scab airline. Non-union is different, but scab? Don't think so.

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

I see your point here and it makes a lot of sense to me...

Purpleanga

Which demographics? You mean like the furloughed or the major guys with heavy experience that have so much loyalty to GJ that they'll leave as soon as they find anything again, those demographics? Look, I agree though as far as the GJ pilot group, no doubt there's going to have to be changes in how they are dealt. But I can tell you that there is so much anymosity towards those guys at TSA.

About 90% of guys I talked to at TSA who actually had been at TSA for a while absolutely hate Gojet, especially the Captains as well as the senior FOs. I'm not even sure that even if we do become one list, any TSA would voluntarly transfer to GJ. I remember once, when I didn't check in for a deadhead and I talked to the crew after wards the CA looked at me and said oh you're one of us, I thought you were those "expletives". I guess it can work, look at Freedom and Mesa.

The point is that with what has been going on the last 4 years the pilots are pretty fed up, and especially when GJ is growing at the expense of TSA employees and pilots as well, and when our contract has been basically stalled because of GJ, things might get pretty bad. TSA pilots have nothing to lose so I hope things will be resolved because both groups benefit with job security and at the same time GJ pilots will then at least have a "legitmate" status. We'll see how GJ steps up to the plate when the time comes....