So how much should a pilot be paid?

Closed Thread Subscribe

Page 15 of 15

« First

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

12-02-2005, 10:05 PM

#141

ChrisH

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Nov 2005

Posts: 184

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rightseat Ballast

As for pay for Doctors...often pilots compare our wages to those of doctors, and show the general ignorance towards that profession that everyone shows towards ours. While I myself do not have the entire picture, let me paint a more complete picture for us to compare ourselves to. The pedestal isn't all that high. A medical student, having gone through 4 years of undergraduate education, and possibly additional post grad work, must then drop about 100k on med school. After that, they then work as a resident for 3 to 10 years depending on their specialty. Pay during this period ranges from 38k to 48k, requires an average of 70-80 hours per week with one or more sjifts per week in excess of 24 hours (and no minimum rest rules to protect them, or hotel beds, or per diem). Upon completion of residency most doctors will find salaries of about 100k to 180k. They run the risk of losing their job as much as we do, but they have one other catch that we don't have. Malpractice insurance is rising rapidly. An OB/GYN must pay upwards of 70k per year to protect themselves from inevitable lawsuits. Take that 70 away from a taxed 150, and you are left with an amount on par with a 5th year regional captain. And that is after 5 years in the field, including residency. So are they really ahead of us? Not really. And with insurance companies pressing hard for reduced rates, doctors are seeing a wage pinch all their own. Sure, there are senior doctors, and elite surgical specialty doctors who are making 300-600k, but they are certainly not the norm. They are aviations FedEx'ers...years of odd hours and rough family life.
In short....Our dilemma is not as bad as we think. Wages are going down, but 75k a year as a regional captain or legacy FO is still livable, still beyond my parents greatest combined income. Lets fight to keep our wages from sliding too far, but appreciate what we still have

I don't know why I use doctors as an example when comparing to pilots. I think it has to do with both careers being a 'higher' paying field. In my list of careers, and their average salaries, very early on in this thread, airline pilot was second only to doctors, as far as average salary.

I think you are exactly right. I have an uncle who is a doctor, and he spends $30K/year in insurance. Doctors make good money, but that is after many, many years of school, and a lot of debt from that schooling. It is also a very stressful job.

Quote:

I may have said it earlier on this post but let me say it again - Going into this field I knew of no other profession where we can make in excess of $100k and leave ALL of our work at work. Doctors / Lawyers are most always working, thinking of something going on at work. It may be a current case, a law brief, or maybe a patient that's now in ICU. We on the other hand can leave EVERTHING (unless you have the hots for a young new f/a) at work until our next shown time. Pretty nice I think. Except for these crappy times - now all I worry about is recall or where I'm going to get my next job.

Not very many fields offer the salary potential that becoming an airline pilot can offer. Does every pilot make six figures? No. Does everyone in other higher paying career fields make top dollars? No. I have looked into no other career field, other than a doctor, and some lawyers, that offer salaries much more than pilots, and even doctors and lawyers aren't making much more than a top UPS, FedEx, or SWA captain. And, everybody knows someone, who knows someone, who has a cousin who knows someone who makes $300K per year, and works 5 days per month as a salesman, or realestate agent, or some other job like that. The truth, however, is that those type of people are very few, and do not represent the typical average worker.

Quote:

A pilot can spend 5-10 in "residency" making 18-25k a year than has to quit at 60 (maybe 65 soon) I've seen doctors and lawyers well into their 70's making top end pay. They normally don't go through 4 or 5 furloughs starting from scratch each time or have their skills tested once or twice a year risking termination for a bad day. They don't have people randomly testing their breath or **** because some politicians think its a good idea. No one worries about the physical or mental health of a doctor cutting you open or lawyer arguing the death penalty. Most other professions don't involve spending over half your life away from home.
I don't expect to be one of the 200+k per year guys, Hell, I never will, but for the guys at the top more power to them they've paid their dues.

Actually, I would consider first year FO's as in some kind of "residency". I think there is a reason that first year FO at regionals is so low. It has to do with the same reason that first year pay at UPS, CAL, etc., is so low. Are you really going to dish out large amounts of cash to someone flying an RJ for the first time, when all they flew before that was a C150?

I don't know of any 5 year FO's still making $18-$25K per year. Most FOs I know were making $40K+ in their 2nd to 3rd year with a regional, and one guy I know was making $50K his second year. By 3 to 4 years, chances are you have upgraded to CA. The couple of Regional CA I know, in their 5th to 6th years are making $70-$80K per year. Not really that bad if you ask me. They probably wouldn't be making much more, if that, in most any other career.

Also, my parents both work in the medical field, although they are not doctors; mom is a nurse, dad is in hospital administration. I know nurses have to renew their license every couple of years or so, plus go through annual CPR training, etc., and I would assume doctors have to do similiar things. I think doctors do have their skills tested, and retested. I would certainly be worried if a mentally, or physically disabled doctor was cutting on me, and I am sure some hospitals may have policies about checking their doctors out for those things. Many work places have drug tests, etc., so pilots are not alone in that regard.

12-03-2005, 05:13 AM

#142

SkyHigh

Self Employed.

Joined APC: May 2005

Position: Corporate Pilot

Posts: 7,119

ChrisH

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisH

You are exactly right. It is an "appeal" thing. It is much more fun to fly an airplane than work on plumbing. But I don't think the $65K is spent on an $18K per year job. I think it is spent on the hopes that they will one day get to the "good life as a pilot", and be a SWA, UPS, FedEx, etc., captain.

Some people, and some jobs, unfortunately, involve some lower pay, and rough times starting off. Someone who goes into medical school to become a doctor has to start off as an intern. They will work many 12+ hour shifts, for little pay, and still be in $100K+ debt from medical school. The pay off in the end is good, but so can be the case with a pilot, when/if you get to the majors. And, a $75-$80K regional captain salary ain't that bad either. As mentioned earlier by Baja, can you buy a $1.1 million house with that? No. But, it is still a good salary, and plenty of people live on those salaries and less.

I know a guy who I work with now who is about to graduate college with a business degree in marketing. He wants to work in sports marketing. He applied for a job, that really is an internship, for after he graduates, working for a state golf association. Starting pay; $17K per year. Sure he could find something paying more, but so can a pilot. Those pilots who start flying corporate, or charter, instead of regionals, typically make a good bit more than a first year regional FO.

The airlines business is all about risks. Does the risk mean that pay should also help compensate for that risk? Sure. But a doctor can just as easily lose his license, and be in the same situation. The same can go for other careers. I can take what I am majoring in now, and go be a database analyst with some company and eventually make $80K per year. In fact, my aunt does just that. But, I would rather take the risk, and work my way to being a regional captain making $80K per year. And, if I am one day lucky enough to make it the majors, like UPS, or SWA, and be making $150K+ per year, than even better.

I wish you all the luck with your business, and I hope it continues to do well. You seem to like it very much. I think everybody has to just do what they like, and what appeals to them.

ChrisH,

I think you have the wrong idea about the regionals and the airlines in general. The job is more difficult and the pay is lower in most cases than you mentioned. Usually it takes 20 years to get to the 80K you referred too. I am out of aviation because I had to. I would much rather be flying but you can't support a family on what most jobs pay. I'd keep a good relationship with your aunt if I were you. The odds are that sooner or later you will end up doing something else besides aviation. Your concept of the industry is totally unrealistic.

SkyHigh

12-03-2005, 10:25 AM

#143

HSLD

APC co-founder

Joined APC: Feb 2005

Position: B777

Posts: 5,853

Thread Split - goto part II

This thread is being split to enhance forum performance - go to part II by following the link below:

http://forums.airlinepilotcentral.co...=8738#post8738