There isn't going to be any "choice" between PBS and the A-Fund, or anything else for that matter. The days of being extorted, strong-armed, and given the bum's rush are over. We might not get back everything that's been taken from us, but we're going to get a large chunk of it. And no, it's not going to be pretty for AA management. The day of reckoning is coming and the management, BODs, and shareholders of this company are finally going to reap what they have sewn.

Nice try at trying another attempt to manage expectations and trick us into negotiating with ourselves.

If X-rated ever wants to return to AA, he'd better hope that PBS isn't instituted. On the other hand, serious threat of a bankruptcy and potential loss of any retirement would probably drive a mass retirement on a scale that would be eye-watering. And Mr. Arpey knows that.

 

This pretty much sums up why AMR is going to be somewhat reluctant in using the "B-word" when trying to extract concessions from us. Not to mention the fact that Ch 11 is a whole new game this days, and not a pretty one.

X-rated, I really don't think it's going to come down to "having to choose" between PBS and A-fund.

 

Seems like you already did!

X

 

X, just curious... it really seems from the tone of your posts that you would love to see us fail in getting the contract we deserve. Now, I know you are ex TWA and that in itself probably explains a lot but if you really do intend on coming back, wouldn't you want to come back to an industry leading contract that will hopefully restore this profession?

 

Then why does AMR want it so badly?

We can have all the work rules in the world. The problem is, before the ink is dry on the new contract, AMR will have a different "interpretation" of the work rules.

We are dealing here with a company that lives by the words "if you don't like it, grieve it."

Sorry....... we'll pass on PBS.

 

73,

Not at all. Let's just say that since January 10, 2001 I've learned to expect the worst while hoping for the best. In my case, I'd say that was a necessary point of view to take.

I look at carriers like UAL who had the world by the tail...even DAL...they were just one BK away from watching the house of cards tumble. Just one 1113 motion. Out went the pension. Out went the iron clad scope clause. In the case of UAL, the airline shrank enormously and everything that management would have probably wanted to negotiate for they were probably able to impose through the BK.

Do you think the A-plan is still on the company's radar? You bet. How many senior types will sell out the junior to keep it?

Even mumbling "bankruptcy"--while you say it'd scare many senior pilots into retirement--doesn't necessarily mean that the size of the airline would remain the same.

So, in general, I don't get my hopes up. If the gains are made, great. Until then I have to live with the fact that being on the bottom of the AA list during this RLA game of chicken puts most TWA recallees in a precarious position. JMHO.

So now that I've answered your question, explain:

What does it explain?

X

 

A more commonsense position than the one most junior AA pilots are dreaming about. They are confusing the fear managers have of bankruptcy with a belief that they will never go to bankruptcy. Every major airline has made a trip to bankruptcy court. AA isn't any more special than they were.

They'll play RLA chicken, but it is foolish to think they'll always chicken out at the last minute. Pilots within 10 to 15 years of retirement aren't be so eager to gamble with their careers like a fortysomething MD82 first officer.

 

Job cost is just the start of it. The other huge issue is stagnation. PBS is great if you're senior - top 15%. But for everyone else it's a huge step down in quality of life. In a company like AMR with the worst stagnation in Legacy history, PBS would be a disaster. Already FO's are looking at 20+ years to the most junior CA on property. Think of that - at age 50 sitting in a crash pad getting called out for every pitiful trip / all-nighter in the system flying the oldest planes in the system - S-80s. Now add PBS and you will make CA at age 55! For pilot at AA to support PBS, just look over to the right seat. Truly think what it would mean - if you can remember what it was like to be an FO. For many CAs that was 20 years ago.

From all the FOs at AMR, I would like to say thanks for offering one more idea in a litany of ideas that has ruined our career progression. I'll pass on PBS. Thank You..

 

It explains nothing, now that I know how you think. I've just run across a few pretty bitter ex TWA folks in the past who would have loved nothing more than to see us fail in any and every regard, siding with management just to get "even" with us. These same folks were also contemplating recall when we started recalling, and are probably back already, soon to be working under whatever pay/work rules APA can secure them in the next contract. Hopefully a drastic improvement. I thought maybe you were in that camp. I'm glad you're not.

Thanks for your explanation, and sorry if I misjudged you.

cheers,
73

 

Not a problem. I have to say that I do understand their (bitter ex TWA folks) sentiment, but it's a sentiment that was bred from other causes and not necessarily the ongoing Section 6 negotiations that AA and APA are mired in. It could have been different, but alas, we are where we are.

X