Outsourcing??
03-20-2009 | 02:31 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 352
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From: Dreamniner
Was that dent there before?
United is furloughing nearly 1,000 pilots and they want to start a new carrier that won't be flown with United pilots. 
If management wants to push ahead with this, I think work to rule would be a totally appropriate response by UAL ALPA.
If management wants to push ahead with this, I think work to rule would be a totally appropriate response by UAL ALPA.
03-20-2009 | 04:51 PM
#32
Line Holder
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 78
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From: 757/767 FO
Where have you been for the last 9 years.... Some of us were screaming about the outsourcing back in 2000. It fell on deaf ears. We kept saying RJ are gonna be doing most of the domestic flying but the major airline MECs thought they were too good to fly 45 seat aircraft. They sold scope to protect their retirement plans and most of those plans were gutted in BK. Now they got age 65 and its screwing the junior guys again. Thanks. I'll be glad when the guys that got their jobs at the major in the 80s finally retire.
03-20-2009 | 05:21 PM
#33
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 165
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From: E-170/175 FO
At least in the US. Friend of mine said he loves it in the Middle East. Great money and work rules. If I leave, it's for the expat thing.
03-20-2009 | 07:14 PM
#34
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Joined: Dec 2005
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I find it a little funny and a little sad that mainline pilots complain about the
RJ and expect the commuter/ regional pilots to engage in the fight. Grow a pair and do something about it. Make real scope language #1 on your wish list. Go on strike for it. Open your arms and accept the regional pilots into your airline. Accept that the pay for RJ sized jets isn't going to be any higher than what the rates are at the regionals (at least at first and for several years to come). Accept that the new hire position for your military buddies is the right seat of a RJ sized jet and RJ pay rates.
It can be done, it just takes leadership. Too bad you don't have the stomach.
RJ and expect the commuter/ regional pilots to engage in the fight. Grow a pair and do something about it. Make real scope language #1 on your wish list. Go on strike for it. Open your arms and accept the regional pilots into your airline. Accept that the pay for RJ sized jets isn't going to be any higher than what the rates are at the regionals (at least at first and for several years to come). Accept that the new hire position for your military buddies is the right seat of a RJ sized jet and RJ pay rates.
It can be done, it just takes leadership. Too bad you don't have the stomach.
03-20-2009 | 07:22 PM
#35
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 341
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From: E-170 Airbender
I find it a little funny and a little sad that mainline pilots complain about the
RJ and expect the commuter/ regional pilots to engage in the fight. Grow a pair and do something about it. Make real scope language #1 on your wish list. Go on strike for it. Open your arms and accept the regional pilots into your airline. Accept that the pay for RJ sized jets isn't going to be any higher than what the rates are at the regionals (at least at first and for several years to come). Accept that the new hire position for your military buddies is the right seat of a RJ sized jet and RJ pay rates.
It can be done, it just takes leadership. Too bad you don't have the stomach.
RJ and expect the commuter/ regional pilots to engage in the fight. Grow a pair and do something about it. Make real scope language #1 on your wish list. Go on strike for it. Open your arms and accept the regional pilots into your airline. Accept that the pay for RJ sized jets isn't going to be any higher than what the rates are at the regionals (at least at first and for several years to come). Accept that the new hire position for your military buddies is the right seat of a RJ sized jet and RJ pay rates.
It can be done, it just takes leadership. Too bad you don't have the stomach.
They dont have the cojones to do anything about it so 320 and others will continue to spread hate. PLEASE prove me wrong 320
03-21-2009 | 05:20 AM
#37
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
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From: 747-400 Captain
And I should leave my regional why??? No way. I'm like many others. The idea or "dream" of going to the majors is gone. Why would I want to give up "pseudo" QOL for reserve for the rest of my life? No way! I'm OK making a little, or in some eyes, a lot less money for my "sub-par" regional airline gig with "rock hard" uncomfortable seats. At least in the US. Friend of mine said he loves it in the Middle East. Great money and work rules. If I leave, it's for the expat thing.
At least in the US. Friend of mine said he loves it in the Middle East. Great money and work rules. If I leave, it's for the expat thing.Gee, that was easy.
Carl
03-21-2009 | 06:50 AM
#38
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Carl,
So you want a regional pilot to take a stand and walk of his job because your brethren forgot to bargin for scope. (or better yet, negotiated for something else instead. Think better widebody pay or that great no furlough clause) Oh, when the regional pilot stands up, his airline is just passed over on the next round of bidding for the express contract and the flying goes to the next carrier. If you want to protect mainline jobs, then mainline pilots need to wake up and look in the mirror. You'll find the problem there.
So you want a regional pilot to take a stand and walk of his job because your brethren forgot to bargin for scope. (or better yet, negotiated for something else instead. Think better widebody pay or that great no furlough clause) Oh, when the regional pilot stands up, his airline is just passed over on the next round of bidding for the express contract and the flying goes to the next carrier. If you want to protect mainline jobs, then mainline pilots need to wake up and look in the mirror. You'll find the problem there.
Fair enough. New rule: once you join a regional, you stay at a regional. Majors should only hire military pilots, corporate pilots and heavy jet pilots from the non-sched/ACMI world. Why...because those pilots got their experience from activities that didn't undermine the very job they hoped to attain.
Gee, that was easy.
Carl
Gee, that was easy.
Carl
03-21-2009 | 09:04 AM
#39
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Joined: Feb 2009
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I find it a little funny and a little sad that mainline pilots complain about the
RJ and expect the commuter/ regional pilots to engage in the fight. Grow a pair and do something about it. Make real scope language #1 on your wish list. Go on strike for it. Open your arms and accept the regional pilots into your airline. Accept that the pay for RJ sized jets isn't going to be any higher than what the rates are at the regionals (at least at first and for several years to come). Accept that the new hire position for your military buddies is the right seat of a RJ sized jet and RJ pay rates.
It can be done, it just takes leadership. Too bad you don't have the stomach.
RJ and expect the commuter/ regional pilots to engage in the fight. Grow a pair and do something about it. Make real scope language #1 on your wish list. Go on strike for it. Open your arms and accept the regional pilots into your airline. Accept that the pay for RJ sized jets isn't going to be any higher than what the rates are at the regionals (at least at first and for several years to come). Accept that the new hire position for your military buddies is the right seat of a RJ sized jet and RJ pay rates.
It can be done, it just takes leadership. Too bad you don't have the stomach.
I agree.
The 50 seat RJ is a financial submarine (aviation article) with over $60 per barrel oil. The RJ will continue to grow in size to 80-110 seats. These aircraft have to be owned by the majors or management will whip-saw pilots against each other.
Delta, United, Continental, US Airways and American pilots have to STOP the outsourcing of flying.
03-21-2009 | 09:15 AM
#40
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I think it was in 1999, TranSmistAkes started operating RJs. Pilots were jumping for joy....somehow I knew that was the replacement for the DC9/737 job I was striving to obtain through my tenure at the regionals. I refused to bid it. (Much like how I refused to pay for my training at the regionals four years earlier)
I did get a job flying a DC9, but a short while later, after a two year furlough I was flying my ol' DC9 routes in a turboprop. I don't blame management, I don't blame ALPO, I blame myself. I since have adopted the mantra that if the company isn't worth working for, then don't work for them.
We need to be introspective and look to ourselves as the only resource to fix the mess this industry has become.
I did get a job flying a DC9, but a short while later, after a two year furlough I was flying my ol' DC9 routes in a turboprop. I don't blame management, I don't blame ALPO, I blame myself. I since have adopted the mantra that if the company isn't worth working for, then don't work for them.
We need to be introspective and look to ourselves as the only resource to fix the mess this industry has become.
The problem is that all RJ pilots feel it is a stepping stone to the majors. They will pay the price (pay, benefits) to graduate... just like a college education.
The major airline pilots need to get control of all flying over 50 seats.
NO MORE SCOPE CHANGES
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