Outsourcing??
03-22-2009 | 04:53 AM
#61
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From: whale wrangler
We at the majors are the ones responsible for the amount of flying at the regional level. When most people hired on at a regional they were "green" as to the politics and policies of airlines and their unions. If you want to stop this you need to do more than just point fingers at the guys who sign on to make 20 bucks an hr. They do not know any better. Why? because no one has taken the time to tell them.
Educate, and if you are going to farm out your flying, put stipulations on who gets it and for how much.
We at the mainline level want the regional pilots to make a ton of money. The more you make the closer your costs are to the legacy the flying undercuts.
Educate, and if you are going to farm out your flying, put stipulations on who gets it and for how much.
We at the mainline level want the regional pilots to make a ton of money. The more you make the closer your costs are to the legacy the flying undercuts.
Fred
03-22-2009 | 09:26 AM
#62
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From: 747-400 Captain
Well that's because they are two different things. I gave an opinion, and not a solution.
Now that we have established that both groups are at fault we can call it water under the bridge and work to a solution keeping in mind the very idea of having two separate groups creates a weakness. Do you have any solutions to offer?
Now that we have established that both groups are at fault we can call it water under the bridge and work to a solution keeping in mind the very idea of having two separate groups creates a weakness. Do you have any solutions to offer?
1. Make scope the highest priority in major's negotiations.
2. Have RJ airlines' pilots negotiate for pay parity with the majors over a 5 year period maximum
3. If the RJ pilots have to strike to achieve step #2, the affiliated major(s) strike in sympathy.
Carl
03-22-2009 | 09:31 AM
#63
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From: 747-400 Captain
Carl
03-22-2009 | 10:02 AM
#64
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From: New Hire
I started as a flight instructor, then corporate, then non-scheduled cargo world flying heavy iron, then majors.
Except for the flight instructor time, the jobs paid pretty well. Most importantly, I didn't work for starvation wages at a job that undercut the profession I hoped to join.
Carl
Except for the flight instructor time, the jobs paid pretty well. Most importantly, I didn't work for starvation wages at a job that undercut the profession I hoped to join.
Carl
Comparing what the two pilots did to get to one point does not matter.
The solutions you brought up seem like a good idea to me, but how can we put those into practice with everyone dragging their feet?
03-22-2009 | 11:59 AM
#65
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#3 is illegal under the RLA, so we're down to #1 and #2. Are you willing to go on strike for scope? How do you define pay parity with the majors?
I think it's safe to say that you and I disagree who should lead the fight. We do agree that the status quo has to go. The present system is bleeding the majors of jobs and allows the race to the bottom to continue at the regionals.
I think it's safe to say that you and I disagree who should lead the fight. We do agree that the status quo has to go. The present system is bleeding the majors of jobs and allows the race to the bottom to continue at the regionals.
Once you understand that the RJ pilots share 50% of the blame, here's what you do IMO:
1. Make scope the highest priority in major's negotiations.
2. Have RJ airlines' pilots negotiate for pay parity with the majors over a 5 year period maximum
3. If the RJ pilots have to strike to achieve step #2, the affiliated major(s) strike in sympathy.
Carl
1. Make scope the highest priority in major's negotiations.
2. Have RJ airlines' pilots negotiate for pay parity with the majors over a 5 year period maximum
3. If the RJ pilots have to strike to achieve step #2, the affiliated major(s) strike in sympathy.
Carl
03-23-2009 | 02:39 PM
#66
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From: 747-400 Captain
Carl
03-23-2009 | 02:46 PM
#67
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From: 747-400 Captain
I define pay parity as pay that is the same based on a similar sized aircraft at the majors, or based on the same formulas of gross weight and speed.
I don't believe that #3 would be illegal. If a regional partner that is allowed under our Scope clause were to strike, we could sympathy strike if the membership voted on it and agreed. When the NWA mechanics struck, we were polled to see if we wanted to engage in a sympathy strike. The pilot memebership voted it down.
Carl
03-23-2009 | 03:21 PM
#68
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From: New Hire
At Delta, the biggest problem is that our MEC is run by one man. And that man thinks RJ's are good for Delta Airlines. In our case, that is a very big problem.
Carl[/quote]
He is supposed to be the voice of 12000+ pilots not one man. I guess Lee is a company guy...unfortunate. What do we do now?
Carl[/quote]
He is supposed to be the voice of 12000+ pilots not one man. I guess Lee is a company guy...unfortunate. What do we do now?
03-23-2009 | 03:34 PM
#69
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From: 767er Captain
It matters because 1515Greenlight asked me. I think he was hoping that whatever I did to gain experience could be shown as the same thing that today's RJ pilots are doing.
At Delta, the biggest problem is that our MEC is run by one man. And that man thinks RJ's are good for Delta Airlines. In our case, that is a very big problem.
Carl
At Delta, the biggest problem is that our MEC is run by one man. And that man thinks RJ's are good for Delta Airlines. In our case, that is a very big problem.
Carl
03-23-2009 | 03:39 PM
#70
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From: 747-400 Captain
Lee has the company and his MEC underlings feeling that his Wall Street contacts and his sheer brilliance make him infallable. This kind of personality cult is always dangerous. Always.
As far as what we can do about it, the answer is nothing right now. The personality cult will always fail at some point because not even Einstein was perfect. But until then, the love affair/fear affair will continue.
Carl
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