US Airways to sell off E-190s
07-27-2009 | 10:20 AM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 842
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From: E-170
republic vanishing would not result in any major jobs. all the 170/175 flying would turn into crj-700/900 flying and the 145's would turn into crj-200's. the result would be more pilots at crap regionals (not saying republic isnt a crap regional) flying for crap wages. the real way for more jobs a mainline's would be to fix the mainline cost structure, more of their managment waste/inadequette fleet scheduling than pilot pay, to allow them to be financially viable against their non-regional using/lcc compettitors.
07-27-2009 | 11:48 AM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 279
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From: Right...CL65
Considering I knew that my company flew 146's before, when I signed on with them, it would be pretty stupid to refuse what I already knew was there wouldn't it? However, I think I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. Considering the chances of that actually happening are very slim, I'm not going to worry about it too much.
However, I'd probly stick with the east coast 50 seaters anyway.
07-27-2009 | 12:07 PM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2006
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I find it interesting how the E190 deal is tying everything together for Delta pilots, USAirways pilots and even AAI and LUV crews. What we have seen since the early 90's is an explosion of the fee for departure model across the board, except the airlines which have stayed away from it are the only ones which seem to have a defined market and are financially successful. This is not a dig in any way at the regional pilots, however it is a question of economics and more importantly the confilct of interest we are starting to see with operations such as Republic. No matter where you look, I believe you would have a hard time finding the same business model we see between the regionals and their life line a.k.a. the majors. Our system in the airlines would be similar to Delphi building parts for GM and then turning around building/ selling their own cars at a dealership right across the street from a GM dealer. As another poster stated "only in the airlines".
Because of the high fuel prices, the success of airlines without regional jets and the absence of the business traveler, it is becoming more difficult to see how the RJ can add to the bottom line of an airline. I have always felt they were a liability, however perhaps in the 90's they were able to retain the business traveler in-house leading to better or more frequent ticket purchases thus justifying their existence. Now, with the economy the way it is, I think that model is long gone. Throw in the apparent conflict of interest we are starting to see with RAH and other regionals it seem the fee for service contract flying isn't a viable business plan.
This E190 debate is really turning up some interesting points and that is what I like about this message board.
Because of the high fuel prices, the success of airlines without regional jets and the absence of the business traveler, it is becoming more difficult to see how the RJ can add to the bottom line of an airline. I have always felt they were a liability, however perhaps in the 90's they were able to retain the business traveler in-house leading to better or more frequent ticket purchases thus justifying their existence. Now, with the economy the way it is, I think that model is long gone. Throw in the apparent conflict of interest we are starting to see with RAH and other regionals it seem the fee for service contract flying isn't a viable business plan.
This E190 debate is really turning up some interesting points and that is what I like about this message board.
What if the original intent of the RJ was to slowly whittle away at the SCOPE clauses of major airlines.. Airline management and the ATA could have been setting this up for a while.. Certainly a short term loss with the RJs would be windfall if they could eventually re-tool "regional" airlines with legacy size aircraft.
Don't you find it interesting that airline management teams, and the ATA refer to the E-190 as a "regional" aircraft.
Things that make you go hmmmm.
AA
07-27-2009 | 12:12 PM
#94
Doing One Pilot's Job
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,870
Likes: 85
Originally Posted by xtreme
Considering I knew that my company flew 146's before, when I signed on with them, it would be pretty stupid to refuse what I already knew was there wouldn't it? However, I think I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. Considering the chances of that actually happening are very slim, I'm not going to worry about it too much.
Where does the righteous indignation come from again?
07-27-2009 | 12:14 PM
#95
Doing One Pilot's Job
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,870
Likes: 85
What if the original intent of the RJ was to slowly whittle away at the SCOPE clauses of major airlines.. Airline management and the ATA could have been setting this up for a while.. Certainly a short term loss with the RJs would be windfall if they could eventually re-tool "regional" airlines with legacy size aircraft.
Don't you find it interesting that airline management teams, and the ATA refer to the E-190 as a "regional" aircraft.
Things that make you go hmmmm.
AA
Don't you find it interesting that airline management teams, and the ATA refer to the E-190 as a "regional" aircraft.
Things that make you go hmmmm.
AA
FWIW, I don't give airline management or the ATA enough credit to think in such a long-term way...but I do think aircraft manufacturers discovered and fully exploited a niche between the cultures of commuter and legacy airlines with a class of aircraft that made it easy for uber-reactive airline management to do the same thing. It was a marketing stroke of genius.
Too bad pilots were the only ones left scratching their hind parts in all this...
07-27-2009 | 08:13 PM
#96
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
From: ERJ CAPT
What if the original intent of the RJ was to slowly whittle away at the SCOPE clauses of major airlines.. Airline management and the ATA could have been setting this up for a while.. Certainly a short term loss with the RJs would be windfall if they could eventually re-tool "regional" airlines with legacy size aircraft.
Don't you find it interesting that airline management teams, and the ATA refer to the E-190 as a "regional" aircraft.
Things that make you go hmmmm.
AA
Don't you find it interesting that airline management teams, and the ATA refer to the E-190 as a "regional" aircraft.
Things that make you go hmmmm.
AA
CS100/CS300 100-149 seats!
07-27-2009 | 08:39 PM
#97
Che Guevara
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Likes: 0
If we are right and the 190 deal is going down then 25 aircraft are headed Republics way.
That means a 16 aircraft net gain (25 190's- 9 717's= 16)
Which means hiring at Republic is imminent and they must have some pretty ambitious plans to grow operations they haven't even transitioned into yet and proven will work, all while battling a crappy economy.
OR
Shuttle America currently operates 16 aircraft for DCI. Those aircraft can be sold to Delta for operation at Compass and as -175's leave, those crews can transition to incoming -190 aircraft.
Staffing remains the same, very little additional resources are spent, and it accomplishes the goal of Republic not having all their eggs in baskets that can be dropped in coming years.
Still think there is no way those aircraft are leaving?
You may be right, but this deal would actually work out quite well for both parties and I'd say is highly probable.
That means a 16 aircraft net gain (25 190's- 9 717's= 16)
Which means hiring at Republic is imminent and they must have some pretty ambitious plans to grow operations they haven't even transitioned into yet and proven will work, all while battling a crappy economy.
OR
Shuttle America currently operates 16 aircraft for DCI. Those aircraft can be sold to Delta for operation at Compass and as -175's leave, those crews can transition to incoming -190 aircraft.
Staffing remains the same, very little additional resources are spent, and it accomplishes the goal of Republic not having all their eggs in baskets that can be dropped in coming years.
Still think there is no way those aircraft are leaving?
You may be right, but this deal would actually work out quite well for both parties and I'd say is highly probable.
The aircraft you speak of have already been accounted for according to company's public statements are are included in future growth count in other operations.
07-27-2009 | 08:54 PM
#98
Che Guevara
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
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I think the funniest part of most people's statements is how definitive they are. That's all you hear when people keep speaking about the future but most have been dead wrong.
I remember when people were saying RAH loaning money to US Airways was a horrible idea. Turned out pretty well. Then there were the droves of posts about how BB, as some put him, was an "idiot" for lending more money to Frontier. One way or another he's making that one pay off.
I'm not here saying he's the savior and can't do wrong. Just pointing out that most appear to have no idea what they're talking about. This all might turn out great or it might fail. Doesn't change the fact that most here have been dead wrong so far. I think "lets wait and see" is about the best any can do.
I remember when people were saying RAH loaning money to US Airways was a horrible idea. Turned out pretty well. Then there were the droves of posts about how BB, as some put him, was an "idiot" for lending more money to Frontier. One way or another he's making that one pay off.
I'm not here saying he's the savior and can't do wrong. Just pointing out that most appear to have no idea what they're talking about. This all might turn out great or it might fail. Doesn't change the fact that most here have been dead wrong so far. I think "lets wait and see" is about the best any can do.
07-28-2009 | 03:01 AM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 309
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The 190 aircraft I am talking about are strictly hypothetical and are currently flying for USAirways.
The 175 aircraft I am talking about are currently being used to fulfill the DCI contract and could hypothetically be transferred.
And yes the 717's are going away...no mystery there.
Which aircraft am I referring to? (not being a smart.ass just trying to understand)
If you are saying that the -175 can't go away because the company has released information they plan on having them around that sounds normal, but not something that can't be changed.
Who knows...I'm kind of done throwing out theories as I believe the show's about to start and I might as well sit back, relax, and watch how it all goes down.
There is enough there in that one thing is certain. There is most likely a deal going down with Republic, Delta, and USAirways and I feel for any pilot regardless of the company that get's caught in the cross-fire.
This industry truly sucks in that no matter how committed, how well or how long you preform your job none of it adds up to job security.
07-28-2009 | 07:09 AM
#100
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Likes: 9
From: Maddog FO
You have contributed greatly with your 5,111 posts. That is what goes on in these forums. People post news, the news is discussed, and then people speculate on what the news will result in. Of course people will be wrong looking into the future. I like to hear (or read) what people have to say about what can or might happen.
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