Waldo11

Viking,

Any intel on Lynx or the Poolies?

Viking602

Pilotswife
Not trying to convince anyone, just passing on facts to try to counteract the speculation.
Re. the pay issue, I have no idea what F9 pay is, just passing on the info from the chief pilot. I don't think they were comparing hourly rates but avg. annual income. Your numbers look correct, but since we don't get paid by the hour I can't be certain. They look close.

Waldo11
The jury is still out regarding Lynx. It is being studied and I get the impression it could go either way. Regarding the poolies, and this is just my opinion but I feel pretty confident. The F9 pilots will go ahead of anyone not currently on the property i.e. in the pool.

Waldo11

Thanks for the answer. That's what a lot of the poolies are worried about.

Viking602

Just to make a point. I have no hidden agenda here, just passing on info. I really feel like a spectator more than a paticipant. This may have some positive effects on my life if things go well. But my seniority is such that regardless of how it is done there are no F9 pilots who will be senior to me, so I have no reason to try to spin things. I will pass on what I know as objectively as possible.

gonoles

I just want to thank the SW pilots for posting information on this board. My husband is an F9 pilot and I appreciate knowing what the gouge is from your side. I look forward to hearing from our unions next week and hope to confirm what has been shared with us from you guys. F9 is our fourth Airline. We have had the worst luck in all aviation history I do believe. When we came to Frontier we thought it would be our last stop. We came here overjoyed to work with a group of pilots that love their job. It is a hard thing to find these days. My husband loves his job and despite bankruptcy when he goes to work he enjoys his job and all the crew he flies with. This is a great group of pilots and FA's. We are open to see what happens with any and all bidders. It is of course stressful to have no control over what happens in our career. We chose to come to Frontier with the dream of retiring here. This is a true home grown airline and when you tell anyone you fly for Frontier in Denver, they get a big grin and say, I love your Airline. Never have we had that reaction at any other airline we have been at. I just wanted to tell everyone our experience here so you can understand why we and the Denver public for that matter have any concerns over our future. While it is sad to see Frontier possibly disappearing as known today, I hope that if bought by SW we will continue on in the same spirit we have at Frontier and be valued as a pilot group for what we would bring to SW. I have to say that I know SW is particular about who they hire...but so is Frontier. On the day my husband was offered a job I believe 2-3 out of 11 were hired. I believe in the matter of integration, our 2 company cultures will mesh well. Just so you all know there have been rumors this weekend of 1-2 addl. bidders coming forward by Monday afternoon. We shall see, but since that is the case I try not to get too worked up over anything right now. The only thing remaining constant for us right now is that there are tons of rumors, the scenario keeps changing day by day, and truly we will not know anything until well into August. I hope whoever wins the bid will have good intentions for us and that we at F9 can unite behind the winner to quickly resolve all issues and move forward strengthened and energized for a new chapter to begin in our history. I know I sound like Pollyanna in some ways and maybe I should fear the unknown, but since I have zero control over this matter I chose to think positive for now and hope that those who hold my family's fate in their hands will think of more than what is best for just themselves. The big reason Frontier has been successful in the past is because of the employees and their level of happiness and job satisfaction. I have to believe SW realizes that and will do what they can to be just and fair so that our new group is unified and so that there is little contention. I am not naive to think that we will get DOH integration, but also do not believe we will be stapled to the bottom of their list. Hopefully some medium will be found if they win the bid. Thanks to all for any information positive or negative. Best wishes to all involved on both sides.

757upspilot

Four airlines isn't very many. I suggest you go find an old Muse air pilot to find out what the potential is for being treated well by SWA in an aquisition. It will however beat being purchased by a commuter airline, Republic.

tsquare

And why would this be a good deal for all involved? THe SWA pilots already enjoy their seniority, and since it is obvious to anybody with a pulse that they will be the surviving carrier here, of what benefit is it to the SWA pilots to integrate the F9 guys with anything other than a stapler?

OK... you talk about whipsawing and mention how Frontier pilots are paid less than SWA pilots... then you go on to talk about sucking routes/gates away from Frontier. This is a contradiction is it not? I mean, if management were trying to whipsaw, wouldn't in be in their interest to start transferring routes/gates TO F9 instead of AWAY?? Cheaper would be getting MORE.. not LESS wouldn't they? I have no dog here in this fight (maybe michael vick does ), but if this thing goes down, I think the F9 guys are gonna get steamrolled.... there won't be any whipsawing... it will be a good ole' Texas beatdown. JMHO

B757200ER

Enjoyed reading your post, but I must disagree with above statement. F9 may have found themselves under a lucky star to be acquired instead of wallowing around in Chapter 11 until DIP runs out, then downsizing until extinct. Let this play out, then see what happens; but don't consider yourself unlucky when many other carriers that have been acquired/bought/merged suffered a much worse fate.

gonoles

I do believe 4 Airlines in a 10 year period is a lot and I feel for anyone who has been through more than that. Anyway, I do want to clarify that I am thankful to have people that are interested in buying F9. It is just that until the first bid came we were all under the impression we would emerge alone here. We have had 8 months of consecutive profit and have the lowest cost per seat mile in the industry. I believe in any other economy we would have gotten the DIP financing and emerged alone. That being said we are grateful for the possibility of continuing to fly despite who buys us and will be grateful if we keep a job.
***On a side note people keep mentioning gates as one reason.......this is not about gates at all. SW was offered 10 gates recently and only took 5. DIA is also expanding and they could have limitless future gates.

FreightK9

I think your chief pilot is speaking of the US air/America West issue regarding:

"arbitrator's 2007 seniority decision following lengthy presentations from both pilot groups. Seniority sets the pilot pecking order on pay, promotions, work and vacation schedules and job security.

The arbitrator, George Nicolau, rejected the date-of-hire proposal from pilots at the old US Airways as unfair.

Instead, he put several hundred of US Airways' most senior pilots at the top of the list, given their vast international experience, something America West didn't have at the time of the merger.

He put about 1,600 US Airways pilots on furlough at the time of the merger at the bottom, reasoning that they didn't have career expectations at the time given US Airways' dire financial straits. He filled in the middle with a mix of pilots from both airlines using a ratio based on their position at the time of the merger and their type of aircraft. The system rankled pilots from the old US Airways who say America West pilots with significantly less experience should not be anywhere near them on the seniority list."

If this goes to Arbitration who knows what will be decided as they all have different opinions. My guess is that both unions will hash something out.

Also F9 has other bids and was doing quite well against SWA in Den so career expectations are not really identifiable in this case....just my opinion...

From a Dallas newspaper:

""The real barrier to them (SWA) making money in Denver has been Frontier, not United," he said.

McAdoo said the most recent data from the fourth quarter of 2008 shows that Frontier is carrying more passengers and bringing in more revenue than Southwest is on the two dozen routes where the two carriers compete.

The numbers show that Frontier's unit revenue, or revenue per available seat mile flown, was 18 percent higher than Southwest's unit revenue, and the average Frontier flight carried 20 more passengers, McAdoo said."

This deal is to eliminate a possible formidable opponent and should not be characterized any differently.