Beagle Pilot

The APFA does a nice job here, although they sugar-coat it more than I would: The Association of Professional Flight Attendants - 11.18.06

The previously mentioned attempt by the APA leadership to lock the Eagle ALPA leadership out of discussions regarding the four-party agreement AA knows as Supplement W is another example.

Then there's the personal attacks when members of the APA are not able to reasonably and rationally discuss the issues:
Are these enough examples to help you understand the APA tactics to which I was referring?

80drvr

I just read the archived AFA hotline...so what, APA wanted requested access to the FA cabin jumpseats after all FAs had been accommodated. No downside to the FAs on this.

In regard the negotiations on Supp W alterations in 2003, your beef should be with AMR management. AMR went "nuclear" (Jeff Brundage's words) on the APA contact under the pretense of concede or face a UAL/USAIR contract imposition in Bankruptcy court. Facing 3000 furloughs, it was completely rational for APA to negotiate what they could to mitigate the impact on their members. AMR owned the process, leverage, and timeline during that round, so if they (AMR) attempted to negotiate something away that AE ALPA owned, it's their fault.

Beagle Pilot

The downside is you undercut the FA's ability to negotiate reciprocal jumpseat agreements with other airlines. Do they have the option of riding the cockpit jumpseat if it's empty?

Are you saying because the company was screwing you that makes it okay to screw us or any other fellow employee?

Do you recall that we'd been in One-List discussions for almost two years when the APA slammed the door in our face and attempted to bone us on Letter 3/Supplement W?

Remember this? Look closely. Many of those are Eagle pilots marching alongside members of the APA.

SkyHighHobo

Beagle Safety...

How do you spell TROLL?

Hoss

Beagle - it seems you are obsessed with the APA. What gives?

Beagle Pilot

Obsessed? No. Tired of their constantly ethically-challenged attacks on other employee groups? You betcha! As a former member, I know their style. I was here when they accused me and my fellow Eagle pilots of being too incompetent to fly jets. I was here when they declared turboprops dangerous. I was here when they would ask or agree to negotiate with us in good faith and in the spirit of union brotherhood only to slam the door in our face and/or stab us in the back. I was here when they attempted to usurp control of the cabin jumpseats without regard for the impact it would have on their flight attendants.

I've watched over the years how members of the Allied Pilots Association use statements like "APA is a big boy union that looks out for AA pilots" as an excuse to run roughshod over the rights of fellow pilots and other employees.

There's a difference between protecting or asserting one's rights and attempting to deprive another of their rights for personal gain. The APA is guilty of the latter and I will continue to dissent until they stop. When you are finally recalled, maybe you'll see what I mean.

NERD

I agree. I don't see the problem with AA pilots on the FA jumpseat if no other AA FAs need it. We have had that at NWA as long as I have been here and I believe Delter also has this. I have only had to use it three times in 15 years and two of those were to allow another employee to get on when otherwise they would have been left behind. Trust me I did not enjoy sitting between the lavs on a DC9 or in the 3L jumpseat on a 757-300 for 6 hours after 12 day Pacific trip ending in a ocean crossing BUT was glad to help. Our FAs have reciprocal with other airlines so I don't think that is an issue. What do the other airlines do? Ual, Lcc, Luv etc.

Beagle Pilot

Agreed it is a good option to have. Did you just take it from the FAs like the APA tried to do or did you work out some kind of agreement with the AFA before obtaining the privilege?

See, this is my whole problem with how the APA conducts business. They don't care who is run over in the process whereas I believe certain ethical lines must be drawn regarding the rights of fellow employees. Obviously many of the AA pilots disagree.

eaglefly

I may be wrong, but I remember the AA F/A's being irate about this. Not the idea necessarily, but the METHOD. I'm curious to know how the APA would react if the F/A's union negotiated with AMR for access to the cockpit jumpseat for deadhaeading F/A's, bypassing the APA and AA pilots entirely.

Chance are, they'd be seen as arrogant, conceited and bankrupt of any idea of consideration for others. The APA treated the TWA pilots and Eagle ALPA just like their own F/A union, so it's nothing new.

I guess this is how self-absorbed "big boys" are expected to act.

NERD

I don't think the FAA would allow FAs in the cockpit jumpseat and even if they did they would be more of a distraction then help. With a offline pilot in the JS a mistake could be caught. Not so with a FA. Hell, I think we should allow offline pilots the FA jumpseat if no other FA wants it. That is what is wrong with this profession though. We (pilots) should and use to have more power and respect from the other employees. Now, you have gate agents and FAs either disregarding pilots requests or worse flat out bossing them around. Imo this is one of the reasons for the degradation of the career. We have allowed mgmt. to water down our profession to the point that the other employees feel they are our equals(professionally speaking).