Beagle Pilot

Translation: APA can do anything it wants because the entire world is against them.

Yeah, I get it. I was a member for 7 years, remember? How long were you a member?

It's interesting that you want to drop the attempted usurpation of the FA jump seats yet you want to keep the quoted comment which was made in regards of that APA action. Do you really mean to say the APA can violate all rules of ethics, union brotherhood and any other form of civil relations between employees because of grievances made to an arbitrator? Do you know that any grievance allows the APA and the company to also voice their opinion whereas the APA action to usurp the FA jumpseats was done in secret behind closed doors. Don't you see the problem here?

FLowpayFO

Beagle, do you bid RSV? How do you have so much time in the day to argue these AA vs. EGL topics?

Gomerglideslope

Access to the cockpit? Of course. Access to the jumpseat? No....You may have legitimate issues with APA, this FA jumpseat issue is not one of them however; and this line of reasoning/ attack sounds bitter and clearly motivated by other issues.

Beagle Pilot

Yes and no. No, they don't have access to the jumpseat, but there is no legality stopping them from doing so AFAIK. It's just never been negotiated. Why do you think it's bitter to point out that a F/A's can have access to the cockpit, or if an agreement is negotiated, access to the cockpit jumpseat in exchange for access to cabin jumpseats?

Nothing of value to add to the argument so you only snipe? What's it to you how I spend my free time? Why do you care what I do?

mrmak2

Hey Beagle,

For us FO's at Eagle: based on the arbitration ruling what DOH seniority would you recommend for FO's like myself to jump ship to another airline v. stay onboard and hope for a reasonable upgrade time? I am a 2007 new hire

Justdoinmyjob

Actually, there is.

FAR 121.547

(c) No person may admit any person to the flight deck unless there is a seat available for his use in the passenger compartment, except --

(3) A certificated airman employed by the certificate holder whose duties require an airman certificate;


Basically what it says is that to sit in the actual jumpseat, you need an airman's certificate. Otherwise, you have to sit in the cabin. Since they already have that benefit, why waste the negotiating capital for something you cannot have in the first place.

Here's the whole enchilada if you want it:

Federal Aviation Regulation Sec. 121.547 - Admission to flight deck.

Jinrai Butai

Looks like they can to me.

Sec. 121.547 - Admission to flight deck.

(a) No person may admit any person to the flight deck of an aircraft unless the person being admitted is --

(1) A crewmember;




(3) Any person who --

(i) Has permission of the pilot in command, an appropriate management official of the part 119 certificate holder, and the Administrator; and

(ii) Is an employee of --

(A) The United States, or

(B) A part 119 certificate holder and whose duties are such that admission to the flightdeck is necessary or advantageous for safe operation; or



(4) Any person who has the permission of the pilot in command, an appropriate management official of the part 119 certificate holder and the Administrator. Paragraph (a)(2) of this section does not limit the emergency authority of the pilot in command to exclude any person from the flightdeck in the interests of safety.

Justdoinmyjob

What you picked out allows them ACCESS to the cockpit. This means they can enter it during flight to bring you a drink. What I pointed out disallows them to SIT ON THE JUMPSEAT for the flight. We were talking about FAs occupying the jumpseat.

Sky Rascal

Which rule allows jumpseating for pleasure?


(5) An employee of the part 119 certificate holder operating the aircraft whose duty is directly related to the conduct or planning of flight operations or the in-flight monitoring of aircraft equipment or operating procedures, if his presence on the flightdeck is necessary to perform his duties and he has been authorized in writing by a responsible supervisor, listed in the Operations Manual as having that authority; and

Beagle Pilot

Thanks. IŽll research it further.

If true, then I can see why the flight attendants would be even more angry at the APA since there is no chance of reciprocity.