What's the "Latest and Greatest" at UAL/CAL?
05-15-2010, 11:35 AM
#231
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,873
Originally Posted by A320fumes
I acknowledge your points. As matter of fact, almost 10 years ago to date, I was expecting the same. I was a USAir guy going through the same thing that I'm going through at CAL; a merger with UAL. I hope you will acknowledge that I should know a little about career expectations. I hope we get this thing to arbitration as soon as possible. A 20% pay raise and CAL's scope, at minimum, should make us all whole and return United to what we both acknowlege was the Airline to work for. Godspeed!
I agree that a 20% raise and solid scope are an absolute minimum for the combined UAL/CAL pilot group. You guys have the most leverage now as a pilot group that you may ever have - use it wisely.
Good Luck - we are all counting on you!
Scoop
Last edited by Scoop; 05-15-2010 at 03:13 PM.
05-15-2010, 11:48 AM
#232
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by Scoop
UAL was indeed the airline to work for in the late 90's, but that is not an exclusive list. At some time during the last 50 years TWA, Pan Am, AMR, DAL , Southwest, FDX, UPS and probably others, have been "the airline to work for." It is a fleeting and meaningless characterization and that is the problem. we need to return the "career" to the what it was for all mainline US carriers, not just one Pilot group, or it will again be a fleeting characterization.
I agree that a 20% raise and solid scope are an absolute minimum for the combined UAL/CAL pilot group. You guys have the most leverage now as a pilot group that you may ever have - use it wisely.
Good Luck - we are all counting on you!
Scoop
I agree that a 20% raise and solid scope are an absolute minimum for the combined UAL/CAL pilot group. You guys have the most leverage now as a pilot group that you may ever have - use it wisely.
Good Luck - we are all counting on you!
Scoop
Scoop;
Just to tag on, You folks probably have more leverage right now than you realize. Think wildest dreams and reel it back in a little kind of leverage.
Best to you all
Scambo
05-15-2010, 01:16 PM
#233
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
Originally Posted by Tony Nelson
SoCal/Bus, After UAL's first furlough (9/11) everyone was recalled. You were allowed to bypass on the way down the seniority list but had to come back or resign on the way back up. It was after this that UAL hired off the street. I believe at that time you could also "comeback"(ie not resign your number) and go on a leave of absence(LOA). Many pilots stayed out on Mil leave but they also allowed pilots who were on "contracts" to fly for other carriers up to 2 years on a LOA. Since UAL furloughed so quickly after the first recall was completed it is possible for someone furloughed from UAL, to go to CAL, then when recalled by UAL go on a LOA and then get furloughed during second UAL furlough. Hence, they have a number at both airlines. At least that is my best guess.
05-15-2010, 01:47 PM
#234
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: EWR 756 Captain
Posts: 70
[QUOTE=
You don't think the career expectations of UAL pilot was HIGH? Best contract at the time, quick upgrades, and wide bodies (real ones).
I would love to see what some of CAL pilot's "career expectations" were before Bethune came in...
Not a UAL vs. CAL thing. It's a "mine is bigger than yours" thing that REALLY bugs the ---- out of me....
EVERY airline has had it's good times and bad...[/QUOTE]
I think "WAS" is the active word here. If CAL and UAL had merged back then
things would have been different, but thats not how it went.
CAL consistently wins awards for customer service from JD Power, Conde Nast, etc. Rated as one of the top companies to work for by Forbes how many years running?
They have the newest fleet, with more on the way, and actually are taking delivery of 787's shortly. Bethune came on board what 12 years ago now, and has been gone for 5 or 6 ? Maybe UAL should have hired him.
Look at how ratty a lot of the UAL airplanes are. Their 75's aren't even etops
and they have old software with the FMA stuff scattered at the bottom of the
PFD. Smaller Pratt & Whitneys. I remember riding in one about 5 or 6 years ago while the CA arrogantly told me how "they were gonna buy us" and I'd "look good in blue"
So its a little more than luck, and if I had a chance to do it all again I'd still be at CAl instead of UAL. My career expectations are and continue to be better.
You don't think the career expectations of UAL pilot was HIGH? Best contract at the time, quick upgrades, and wide bodies (real ones).
I would love to see what some of CAL pilot's "career expectations" were before Bethune came in...
Not a UAL vs. CAL thing. It's a "mine is bigger than yours" thing that REALLY bugs the ---- out of me....
EVERY airline has had it's good times and bad...[/QUOTE]
I think "WAS" is the active word here. If CAL and UAL had merged back then
things would have been different, but thats not how it went.
CAL consistently wins awards for customer service from JD Power, Conde Nast, etc. Rated as one of the top companies to work for by Forbes how many years running?
They have the newest fleet, with more on the way, and actually are taking delivery of 787's shortly. Bethune came on board what 12 years ago now, and has been gone for 5 or 6 ? Maybe UAL should have hired him.
Look at how ratty a lot of the UAL airplanes are. Their 75's aren't even etops
and they have old software with the FMA stuff scattered at the bottom of the
PFD. Smaller Pratt & Whitneys. I remember riding in one about 5 or 6 years ago while the CA arrogantly told me how "they were gonna buy us" and I'd "look good in blue"
So its a little more than luck, and if I had a chance to do it all again I'd still be at CAl instead of UAL. My career expectations are and continue to be better.
05-15-2010, 03:20 PM
#235
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,873
Originally Posted by Speedtape
I think "WAS" is the active word here. If CAL and UAL had merged back then
things would have been different, but thats not how it went.
CAL consistently wins awards for customer service from JD Power, Conde Nast, etc. Rated as one of the top companies to work for by Forbes how many years running?
They have the newest fleet, with more on the way, and actually are taking delivery of 787's shortly. Bethune came on board what 12 years ago now, and has been gone for 5 or 6 ? Maybe UAL should have hired him.
Look at how ratty a lot of the UAL airplanes are. Their 75's aren't even etops
and they have old software with the FMA stuff scattered at the bottom of the
PFD. Smaller Pratt & Whitneys. I remember riding in one about 5 or 6 years ago while the CA arrogantly told me how "they were gonna buy us" and I'd "look good in blue"
So its a little more than luck, and if I had a chance to do it all again I'd still be at CAl instead of UAL. My career expectations are and continue to be better.
things would have been different, but thats not how it went.
CAL consistently wins awards for customer service from JD Power, Conde Nast, etc. Rated as one of the top companies to work for by Forbes how many years running?
They have the newest fleet, with more on the way, and actually are taking delivery of 787's shortly. Bethune came on board what 12 years ago now, and has been gone for 5 or 6 ? Maybe UAL should have hired him.
Look at how ratty a lot of the UAL airplanes are. Their 75's aren't even etops
and they have old software with the FMA stuff scattered at the bottom of the
PFD. Smaller Pratt & Whitneys. I remember riding in one about 5 or 6 years ago while the CA arrogantly told me how "they were gonna buy us" and I'd "look good in blue"
So its a little more than luck, and if I had a chance to do it all again I'd still be at CAl instead of UAL. My career expectations are and continue to be better.
As a DAL guy I don't have a dog in this hunt but it appears to me you are referring to things that makes an airline better for passengers vice pilots. Pilots in a merger care mostly about who is bringing what jobs to the table.
All the awards and shiny new planes are great. but the number and quality of pilot positions is the holy grail of criteria for deciding a SLI. Besides, you guys will probably go to arbitration and let a neutral third party decide - it worked fairly well for us at DAL.
Good Luck - Scoop
05-15-2010, 05:39 PM
#236
Banned
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 244
Originally Posted by Scoop
Speedtape,
As a DAL guy I don't have a dog in this hunt but it appears to me you are referring to things that makes an airline better for passengers vice pilots. Pilots in a merger care mostly about who is bringing what jobs to the table.
All the awards and shiny new planes are great. but the number and quality of pilot positions is the holy grail of criteria for deciding a SLI. Besides, you guys will probably go to arbitration and let a neutral third party decide - it worked fairly well for us at DAL.
Good Luck - Scoop
As a DAL guy I don't have a dog in this hunt but it appears to me you are referring to things that makes an airline better for passengers vice pilots. Pilots in a merger care mostly about who is bringing what jobs to the table.
All the awards and shiny new planes are great. but the number and quality of pilot positions is the holy grail of criteria for deciding a SLI. Besides, you guys will probably go to arbitration and let a neutral third party decide - it worked fairly well for us at DAL.
Good Luck - Scoop
05-15-2010, 06:18 PM
#237
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,709
Originally Posted by Speedtape
Look at how ratty a lot of the UAL airplanes are. Their 75's aren't even etops
and they have old software with the FMA stuff scattered at the bottom of the
PFD. Smaller Pratt & Whitneys.
and they have old software with the FMA stuff scattered at the bottom of the
PFD. Smaller Pratt & Whitneys.
Me thinks you don't know what the heck you are talking about.
05-15-2010, 08:46 PM
#239
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 787 Captain
Posts: 1,512
Originally Posted by SoCalGuy
Airhose.....
Are ALL the B757-200's at UAL ETOPS??
SC
Are ALL the B757-200's at UAL ETOPS??
SC
We need to stand side by side as pilot groups and look Tilton and Smisek in the face and tell them what we demand in our contract. Bickering amongst ourselves only hurts our cause.
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