Delta Pilots Association
10-30-2010, 03:59 PM
#1961
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
ALPA is relying on science, and has crafted a comprehensive package that, in total, reduces fatigue significantly; not in EVERY situation, but in most.
It's incredible to me how anyone (including ALPA) can't see that the reductions in fatigue proposals are small change - while the HUGE deal is the increase from 8 hours per day to 9 or 10 per day. ALPA is hopelessly broken, so I expect nothing less from them. Hopefully the actions of people like Sully, CAPA and others will get ANY increase in a pilots flight time stopped.
Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
The ATA would like nothing more than to rely on "common sense" and accept status quo.
Carl
10-30-2010, 04:40 PM
#1962
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Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
WHAT ARE THE CHOICES T? I'll make it easy. There are 4 options:
1) Do nothing - ATA loves this option
1) Do nothing - ATA loves this option
Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
2) Compromise and achieve 90% of what we want - the apparent ALPA approach
Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
3) Go for a homerun, but risk a strike out - the apparent CAPA approach
Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
4) Wish upon a star - the typical forum approach
Carl
10-30-2010, 05:06 PM
#1963
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Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by slowplay
Where'd you come up with this?
Everything that I've read (and I'm not the expert but have talked to a couple of them) says that staffing will be neutrally to positively affected by the NPRM depending on the type of flying an air carrier does.
And I did recognize what T is saying. That's why it's just like the GIB.
Everything that I've read (and I'm not the expert but have talked to a couple of them) says that staffing will be neutrally to positively affected by the NPRM depending on the type of flying an air carrier does.
And I did recognize what T is saying. That's why it's just like the GIB.
And as much as this might disappoint you, your transparent attempts to preach the ALPA talking points are not persuasive.
Carl
10-30-2010, 05:12 PM
#1964
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Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Reroute
PMFJI, but ALPA hasn't endorsed this NPRM. The NPRM as written differs from ALPA policy on crew rest, which is based on mountains of scientific data. ALPA has identified area in which the current NPRM falls short and is working to effect change.
Originally Posted by Reroute
Regardless, this is about safety, you can't bring an argument to the table and have any credibility unless it has data to prove the safety aspects of the argument.
Carl
10-30-2010, 05:14 PM
#1965
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Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat
Pineapple, I would suggest to you that your willingness to settle for Option #2 goes to the root of ALPA's problems since the Duffy era.
To wit; when Elizabeth Dole suggested she intended to have us all aim for the little cup, Captain Duffy was offered an alternative. Have
the then 44,000 strong ALPA send tightly sealed fluid filled jars to the dear lady to express our displeasure. He was horrified and said we
needed to just "go along."
ALPA's continued unwillingness to stand up and demand more has continued. Our profession as a result has been denigrated by
management, abused by egotistical, headline grabbing politicians and made the butt of jokes by the travelling public.
Maybe ALPA needs to grow a set and stand up with everyone else for once...for the profession and the professionals. "Safety"
is what it's supposed to be about. Once you compromise, it's hard to get it back.
Congress will support you when they see you have the public behind you. The public will support you when you stand up and say
"we will not risk your lives over insufficient rest." And a few cancelled flights, with respectful PA's made to the passengers by the
fatigued crew will end up going viral on YouTube like the JFK landing...and the media will be on board.
Then..."Dear Leader" Babbitt...a former ALPA President...will understand that pilots CAN stand up and be a force that he must deal with.
That's why maybe ALPA should stand up with CAPA, IBT, APA, SWAPA, USAPA, IPA and others...for once.
Ya' think?
To wit; when Elizabeth Dole suggested she intended to have us all aim for the little cup, Captain Duffy was offered an alternative. Have
the then 44,000 strong ALPA send tightly sealed fluid filled jars to the dear lady to express our displeasure. He was horrified and said we
needed to just "go along."
ALPA's continued unwillingness to stand up and demand more has continued. Our profession as a result has been denigrated by
management, abused by egotistical, headline grabbing politicians and made the butt of jokes by the travelling public.
Maybe ALPA needs to grow a set and stand up with everyone else for once...for the profession and the professionals. "Safety"
is what it's supposed to be about. Once you compromise, it's hard to get it back.
Congress will support you when they see you have the public behind you. The public will support you when you stand up and say
"we will not risk your lives over insufficient rest." And a few cancelled flights, with respectful PA's made to the passengers by the
fatigued crew will end up going viral on YouTube like the JFK landing...and the media will be on board.
Then..."Dear Leader" Babbitt...a former ALPA President...will understand that pilots CAN stand up and be a force that he must deal with.
That's why maybe ALPA should stand up with CAPA, IBT, APA, SWAPA, USAPA, IPA and others...for once.
Ya' think?
Carl
10-30-2010, 05:15 PM
#1966
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: Boeing Boss
Posts: 335
Am I the only one who wonders how successful ALPA would be if passionate but misguided folk like Carl harnessed their energy to improve ALPA, instead of attacking it with 7/8 logic?
Never mind. It would require doing more than typing on a keyboard...
Never mind. It would require doing more than typing on a keyboard...
10-30-2010, 05:34 PM
#1967
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Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by slowplay
Again, thanks for highlighting how ineffective CAPA has been in the NPRM/ARC processes.
Carl
10-30-2010, 05:37 PM
#1968
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by Splash
Am I the only one who wonders how successful ALPA would be if passionate but misguided folk like Carl harnessed their energy to improve ALPA, instead of attacking it with 7/8 logic?
Never mind. It would require doing more than typing on a keyboard...
Never mind. It would require doing more than typing on a keyboard...
It's so easy to play this game. And ya know what? It really works. ALPA is STILL broken.
10-30-2010, 05:39 PM
#1969
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Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by DAWGS
There is no doubt ALPA is negotiating a less safe alternative. What they are planning to get in return....I don't know,
Carl
10-30-2010, 05:42 PM
#1970
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
I do know. What they get in return is to be seen as team players. You will not get your follow-on government job if you are not a team player. Babbit, Woerth, etc are examples of ALPA leaders who were inexplicably weak while in office, and now we see that it was not so inexplicable after all. If anyone thinks that the main goal of anybody high up in ALPA national is to look out for their pilots, then return to the seniority list - needs some fresh air.
Carl
Carl
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