Delta Pilots Association
12-09-2010, 03:16 AM
#3451
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
12-09-2010, 03:50 AM
#3452
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Yep, that is it. 
In reality DAL88, the reason it is a answer with a qualifier is because we are too far out of Section Six to make our demands either known or concrete. 20-30% would be way too low if APA and UALALPA got 20 then 20. People have been saying that for quite some time.
Actually Scambo, It was Alfa, PG, and Slow that started the dialogue of Time-Value money, and they brought it up will over a year ago.
I think it is quite easy to refocus the group in to that sort of mentality, it is much harder to get them in to a proactive sort of mind set, and the company knows that. Much easier to keep them where they are then to get 12300+ pilots running around upset. Keep em relatively content and save yourself a lot of late nights at the labor attorney's office.
We will see if the desire by the company to have a contract on or before the amendable date hold true. If not, as I have repeatedly said, we can very easily revert to our old ways, but I personally think it serves this pilot group and this corporation to try it a different way at first.
In reality DAL88, the reason it is a answer with a qualifier is because we are too far out of Section Six to make our demands either known or concrete. 20-30% would be way too low if APA and UALALPA got 20 then 20. People have been saying that for quite some time.
ACL;
If we are limiting our discussion to payrates:
I think T is the one who started talking about time value of money with respect to pay...so you are preaching to the choir.
When you say a 20-30% bump (very matter of factly), it is an expectations management tool, just to be clear. 5,5,5,5 is fine if it is 5,5,5,5,50 just to make sure the next negotiation is in good faith.
I Agree that an agreement sooner rather than later is in our (individual and collective) best interests, but how do we re-focus the pilot group from pro-active engagement to job action prepared if the company doesn't want to recognise our (extreme and too long) good faith?
I'm kinda out of good faith personally, but I'm tryin real hard to have Christmas spirit.
If we are limiting our discussion to payrates:
I think T is the one who started talking about time value of money with respect to pay...so you are preaching to the choir.
When you say a 20-30% bump (very matter of factly), it is an expectations management tool, just to be clear. 5,5,5,5 is fine if it is 5,5,5,5,50 just to make sure the next negotiation is in good faith.
I Agree that an agreement sooner rather than later is in our (individual and collective) best interests, but how do we re-focus the pilot group from pro-active engagement to job action prepared if the company doesn't want to recognise our (extreme and too long) good faith?
I'm kinda out of good faith personally, but I'm tryin real hard to have Christmas spirit.
I think it is quite easy to refocus the group in to that sort of mentality, it is much harder to get them in to a proactive sort of mind set, and the company knows that. Much easier to keep them where they are then to get 12300+ pilots running around upset. Keep em relatively content and save yourself a lot of late nights at the labor attorney's office.
We will see if the desire by the company to have a contract on or before the amendable date hold true. If not, as I have repeatedly said, we can very easily revert to our old ways, but I personally think it serves this pilot group and this corporation to try it a different way at first.
12-09-2010, 04:32 AM
#3454
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! So it is ok to force your UNION BROTHERS to the street for years so you can "restore the profession" to what was? GMAFB. That seems typical of the DPA crowd. Be a man, take the furlough. We all did it.
All us junior guys have make sure we don't rock the boat so DAL88 doesn't have to give up his Lexus and his beach home. Screw the rest of us who will be living on unemployment checks.
The difference is clear. What I am advocating is market based increases in our contract value, starting with rules and scope to ensure the maximum amount of people in our union. What you care about is your wallet and you don't give a hoot how many people below you are cut so you can make your $350 per hour.
Life ain't Windows. You don't get to hit the "Restore" button. Look forward, guys.
And as for retirement, you had that opportunity. Besides, what you makes dwarfs what I make combined.
All us junior guys have make sure we don't rock the boat so DAL88 doesn't have to give up his Lexus and his beach home. Screw the rest of us who will be living on unemployment checks.
The difference is clear. What I am advocating is market based increases in our contract value, starting with rules and scope to ensure the maximum amount of people in our union. What you care about is your wallet and you don't give a hoot how many people below you are cut so you can make your $350 per hour.
Life ain't Windows. You don't get to hit the "Restore" button. Look forward, guys.
And as for retirement, you had that opportunity. Besides, what you makes dwarfs what I make combined.
I've said it several times and I'll say it again. I don't think there is any way that significantly restoring our pay will result in anyone being furloughed. I don't want anyone to be furloughed, including you. But for you to want the entire profession to be devalued by HALF its historical value... to avoid what you perceive as having the potential to cause you to get furloughed... is about as selfish as it gets.
And what opportunity for retirement did I already have? I am not now nor have I ever been in a position to be able to even think about retiring. Again, you just have no clue what you're talking about.
Last edited by DAL 88 Driver; 12-09-2010 at 04:44 AM.
12-09-2010, 04:41 AM
#3455
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
12-09-2010, 05:38 AM
#3456
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 777 Sim Instructor
Posts: 745
D'ems real close to fighting words, 80...
What I mean is I don't want the biggest paycheck for a few years and then bumpkiss for 5. I would much rather have the second or third highest payrate and have that for the next 15 years.
The difference between the senior guys who what huge rates (restoration) and me is if I get what I want, no one loses their job. I don't have the power to vote their jobs away for scope or rigs. They do have that power and have done it multiple times over the years.
Time for bed. I'll expand more tomorrow.
What I mean is I don't want the biggest paycheck for a few years and then bumpkiss for 5. I would much rather have the second or third highest payrate and have that for the next 15 years.
The difference between the senior guys who what huge rates (restoration) and me is if I get what I want, no one loses their job. I don't have the power to vote their jobs away for scope or rigs. They do have that power and have done it multiple times over the years.
Time for bed. I'll expand more tomorrow.
I hate to agree with 88,New,Carl etc but you are looking short term, with all the retirements coming you wont have to worry about furlough but a sub par contract lasts a lifetime.
12-09-2010, 06:07 AM
#3457
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Lil Bus A
Posts: 412
Bob
Just to explain BOB a little more to those who were not here during that summer. Most pilot just worked to the rules, IE: no short cuts, fly the route, no visual approaches, full IFR approaches, on speed, gear down, very stable approaches. (Just like in the simulator) No single engine taxi, everything done in a none hurried manner. ATC would get pi**ed, but it didn't take long for them to understand what was going on. Sure, many guys missed a commuter flight home, but most understood the message that was being sent. It was a grass routes movement never endorsed my the MEC. A few may have took it over the top, but prostan would reel those guys back in. Everyone was pi**ed and not doing any favors for crew scheduling, they had schedules they could not cover and nobody would answer the phone. Even tho we are all a bunch of greedy pilots, if you push us to far, we will push back. I know guys who would avoid bid other pilots, not with the program.
This is all from memory, so others may remember it a little different.... Also, I don't endorse or reject BOB. It is what it is.
This is all from memory, so others may remember it a little different....
Also, I don't endorse or reject BOB. It is what it is.
12-09-2010, 06:17 AM
#3458
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Lil Bus A
Posts: 412
Satchip, Dude I'm really tired of this senior call out crap, if I'm not mistaken I have one vote and so do you. You would be better served and received if you said the majority of Delta pilots because all of our contracts were passed by a rather large majority.
I hate to agree with 88,New,Carl etc but you are looking short term, with all the retirements coming you wont have to worry about furlough but a sub par contract lasts a lifetime.
I hate to agree with 88,New,Carl etc but you are looking short term, with all the retirements coming you wont have to worry about furlough but a sub par contract lasts a lifetime.
12-09-2010, 06:31 AM
#3459
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
They are asking for 1992 wages plus inflation. Where you want to be too. That got them parked. If they do not have an agreement by the time we enter section six, it will hurt our progress as well.
They would be back at the table if they would have taken 20-30% a few years ago, which would totally change our sight picture as well.
12-09-2010, 06:40 AM
#3460
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
They are asking for 1992 wages plus inflation. Where you want to be too. That got them parked. If they do not have an agreement by the time we enter section six, it will hurt our progress as well.
They would be back at the table if they would have taken 20-30% a few years ago, which would totally change our sight picture as well.
They would be back at the table if they would have taken 20-30% a few years ago, which would totally change our sight picture as well.
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