tsquare

Yeah my bad.. the clue bird didn't land...

tsquare

You are amazing... You made a statement about rolling RJ flying back into the mainline. You said something about that should be our goal, and since you pour alpa koolaid by the gallon and wave the pom poms, I thought I would phrase the question the same way they get phrased to me from the bubbas when I tell them I want the reserve system fixed... or... whatever. So I'm throwing that one at you since you brought it up. HOw much are you willing to pay for that?

alfaromeo

Nothing. The key is getting management to do it on their own. Our task is to show them that they will have a better more profitable airline if we bring back the flying. I am still baffled why you feel you need to make personal attacks to make your point. If you have a good point, make it. When you attack people you just make yourself look like you have no argument.

Bucking Bar

Sailing,

My information is based on the ZipLines, Negotiator's Notepads and published testimony of those called in the Ford Cooksey v. ALPA litigation. I do not have any internal insights, BUT, it does appear from my reading that interest based bargaining was used to reach an agreement (under pressure) and that jobs were traded for gains in other parts of the contract. No where is this more evident than in NWA's ZipLine publications. That deal is now part of our contract.

In my opinion, we failed our members by not holding unity sacrosanct. As Mesabah (annoyingly, but entirely accurately) points out, no Judge has ever abrogated a scope agreement.

You are correct there are other parts of our contract which need help. Absolutely! But, the point of this threat is a renegade group of Delta pilots threatens our Association with a representational alternative. The basis for their support is a perceived conflict of interest which places Delta pilots prostrate to regional carriers.

ALPA is not under direct threat due to loss of work rules. ALPA is under threat because it participated in the sale of unity.

The DPA is akin to a GPWS alert. Probably nothing, but ignoring the issue could be fatal. Not being a one trick pony, just focusing on the greatest threat.

Your report is the first I have heard that scope was the last section settled, aside from Dan Ford's writing that scope was "left over bargaining." Never understood what he meant by that comment. If true, why would we leave scope for last? Usually the last thing bargained is the thing most compromised to reach agreement.

Bucking Bar

[QUOTE=satchip;925668]Sort of. They actually act in accordance with our contract to minimize the company's obligation to pay us. The non productivity is by design. If we were productive, they would have to pay us more. Hence the DH legs in and out of a rotation when you pass another pilot from your base at the gate who just DH in to relieve you. Breaks up the day credit that would result in your getting paid 94.5 hours instead of 70 every month.

80ktsClamp

[QUOTE=Bucking Bar;925729]
Not necessarily.. their use is horribly in efficient.

I flew 53 hours in December. I deadheaded for an additional 35 hours! Almost 90 hours of credit straight pay.

As far as the deadheading in the replacement, I had one of those... except I deadheaded out on the flight that the replacement flew, thus double paying for an FO on that flight.

0RAC

Block Representation Someone help me out here. Who is going into the office with me to talk to the Chief Plot at my base when I get in trouble? What if there is no one in my base in my seniority block? What if no one runs from a block? I kind of like having people in my base taking care of my needs.

Pineapple Guy

Actually, the most contentious item is generally the last thing agreed to. It's the one both sides are least willing to compromise on... hence it ends up as the last thing to be settled.

If anyone on this board actually looked at the scope compromises that have occurred over the past twenty years, they would see a marked difference from what is commonly held belief. Remember - in 1989 DAL's scope clause permitted UNLIMITED 70 seaters. Unlimited. It wasn't until RJ's came along, that the mainline pilot groups started trying to put limitations on that. And it wasn't until BK, did it reverse course and increased RJ flying was permitted.

Carl Spackler

Here's what you're not getting: Scope sales under extreme pressure and fear tactics started well BEFORE bankruptcy. Those contracts were voted in by 70% plus margins. You cannot blame the "senior pilots" for contracts that were voted in by 70% margins. I know this is fashionable for RJ pilots to throw hate on the senior major pilots, but it's simply not accurate. We have our share of blame for caving in to fear tactics, but it's not all on us.

That's true.

In a lot of ways, ALPA has become exactly that.

Since ALL pilots are hurt by contract degradation, your attempts at smearing "elite" pilots continue show ignorance.

Actually you are. Since most of what you post is factually inaccurate based on an ignorance of history, the moniker still stands.

Carl

Carl Spackler

That is a distortion. The underwriters who also underwrite policies for Delta, paid the losses. The losses were paid by underwriters' policies for Continental Airlines and Colgan.

Carl