Not much difference except UPS has 108 on furlough and FedEx has 0. Kinda lets the air out of your argument carl.

Nothing at all to do with the subject of the current debate, but that's never stopped you before.

Carl

SWA has 0 on furlough, and United has 1437. Kinda lets the air out of your argument.

Truth be told there are victories and failures in both the independent unions and in ALPA. To deny that positives and negatives occur via both types of representation is to be ignorant.

In truth, SWAPA, APA, and other independents are just riding on the coattails of ALPA. If there were no large national union with the clout of ALPA, SWAPA would be forming one, and not a toothless CAPA. The trick is to get these other carriers on board and have them pull their own weight. APA seems to be getting it now, SWAPA will learn once their management decides not to play nice anymore. SWAPA is slowly getting pushed out of their little bubble and rejoining the real world.

Sort of but not quite. I was comparing two very similar companies with very similar business models that have been doing it for roughly the same time. Their payrates seem close to each other and without delving into the nuts and bolts of the contract, it looks like the differentiation is the furloughs.

SWA and UAL are a different story. They both carry passengers. That's about the extent of the similarities. The failure of UAL management and the success of SWA management can hardly be laid at the feet of ALPA.

What has ALPA accomplished lately? Just a bullet list will do. You can stop at 2 items.

How about our annual increases and DC bumps since the merger? How about the SOT and commuting policy change? I know it doesn't count as an improvement to you, T, but to an outsider X + Y = >X

• Had major influence on the FT/DT legislation (or did you want management to have the only voice)
• Got the Roth IRA/Rollover bill passed
• Got the normal IRA legislation through the Senate
• Lobbied to get Haneda slots (notice the 747 bids)
• Lobbied to get the Heathrow slots (notice the 767 bids)
• Had major influence on the new pilot hour requirements changes
• Successfully negotiated $750 mm in merger stock
• Successfully negotiated 20% increase in our compensation (30 for fNW) while the company was losing money

Can I stop now?

How about SOT scheduling changes now out of section six.

A merger that worked.

No furloughs this last downturn

Rollback of the cutout for Non-sked 121 carriers in the FAA re-authorization bill.

Six way protocol with the major skyteam partners that has management on non-union carriers in countries where unions are illegal, recognize us, AF pilots et al as the a bargaining agent. Huge first step!

- Cost of living adjustments to keep our buying power at bankruptcy/emergency levels.

- Lowered expectations of many in our pilot group and allowed management to have expectations for continued lower pilot costs and labor harmony going forward.