Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

I wasn't in the lounge either; and I have no idea whether some ALPA guys were on FPL. It does bug me though that allegations are continually made, then refuted, but no one ever seems to learn to check facts before posting, so many allegations that are untrue end up being accepted.

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

For example, even you mention that "many have posted about intimidating behavior from the DALPA guys". In reality, the "many" are the same few who do nothing BUT post anti-ALPA stuff, again much of it ultimately unproven. So, absent first hand knowledge, I take all of their postings with a big grain of salt.

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

IF there was intimidation, that is flat out wrong, and is inexcusable. But with the level of miscommunication going on, I think it is perfectly appropriate for both sides to be there, so that the line pilot has a first hand opportunity to hear both sides of the story. Otherwise, he gets a very slanted, distorted, untrue picture of what is reality.

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

It's a lot harder for DPA to make stuff up, if an ALPA guy is around the corner to provide his side of the story.

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

As for "intimidation", my, my, my aren't we going soft? Intimidation is a guy swinging a baseball bat at your head, or physically chasing you out of the lounge; not someone standing next to you taking your picture. What are we made of?

Originally Posted by shiznit

Did ALPA representatives come over and forcibly "silence" people in the crewroom? Did ALPA representatives physically restrain any pilots in the lounge from doing anything? If so, why weren't the Atlanta Police contacted. Assault is a serious offense and I have yet to hear of anything of the sort occurring, even by the "DPA" account of the week.

Originally Posted by shiznit

After reading the above excerpt from the PWA, please explain (omitting "emotion" words) why the company should be allowed to freely allow and encourage other incorporated entities to engage in attempting to represent the pilots of Delta Air Lines.

Originally Posted by shiznit

From my perspective(and it could be incorrect, I'm not an RLA lawyer), it would appear to be dangerously close to violating the very first paragraph of the PWA. Many pilots(pro-DPA and pro-ALPA)are concerned about other parts of Section 1 being violated, but noticeably silent on this part of Section 1 and a "potential violation".

Originally Posted by shiznit

If the Company decides to promote an alternate bargaining agent for the pilots, it could have PWA violation potential, so I would expect the Company to tread carefully, and I would expect ALPA, our union to oversee it much like they oversee line construction and the monthly green slip reports to make sure that the company is following the terms of the agreement.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

The people here that have posted their own negative experiences in the crew lounge were NOT people that usually post negative things about ALPA. The vast majority of those posts are from guys that don't post very often.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Unbelievably silly attempt at deflecting the point. Read the previous two posts.



The company did allow DPA on the propery, but they provided anything but encouragement. Delta management tried to stop this in every way they could when DPA first notified Delta of their intention to come to the lounge. Legal action had to be threatened by DPA to get Delta management to back down and allow free speech and free association.

If you had actually read the PWA excerpt that you posted, you would have clearly seen the answer to your question. DPA was not acting in any way as the bargaining agent for Delta pilots. NOT IN ANY WAY. They were there to ask for the votes to someday become the bargaining agent for Delta pilots. Your mistake was not posting that portion of the PWA that prohibits any entity from being on Delta property for the purpose of trying to become the new bargaining agent for Delta pilots. When you find that paragraph of the PWA, be sure to post it. ***(Its impossible to prove a negative, your argument is invalid.)



Not even close. But then again, if it was close, ALPA would have to grieve it in order to defend the language in Section 1. And we know good ALPA is at that!



ALPA can oversee whatever they want. They can even intimidate by photographing and allying with management to block free speech and free association. But when they actually succeed at it, ALPA and management runs the risk of a lawsuit that they would lose. That's why ATL management backed down.

Carl

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

I didn't transit through the ATL pilot lounge during that week. But I was there a few days ago. I was sitting at a computer when a friend of mine came over to tell me about his experience with "surge week." He was one of the DPA reps present. (One of the last people I would have thought would be involved with something like DPA by the way.) What he told me was very consistent with the account in the DPA surge week report. He told me very specific things that he personally witnessed and experienced. I was both amazed and infuriated at the same time. I trust this individual and know him to be a straight shooter and not someone I would ever expect to make something up or just parrot a talking point. I have no doubt that the details in this report are accurate: ATL SURGE WEEK

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Yeah, nothing biased about your opinions there alfa. The DPA folks didn't have an "essentially thought" agreement with ATL management. They had an agreement. An agreement they secured prior to showing up on the first day. That agreement was tested and fought the entire week by ALPA reps and volunteers. That's a fact. As far as flight pay loss, we won't know for certain until the ATL reps release the flight pay loss data. They will do that...won't they? I would bet that after the publicity this has gotten, anybody that did put in for flight pay loss, will rescind that request.



Hilarious. You must be surrounded by people who never question you. It's the only way you could distort the obvious so completely. Nobody at DPA cares about their picture being taken. Their names and faces are already public! What DPA was angry about was ALPA reps photographing Delta pilots who were talking to the DPA and taking DPA literature to study what they were about. That's what you do to scabs who cross a picket line - NOT to Delta pilots in their own crew lounge. Sickening and shameful. Only the hoplessly entrenched ALPA apologists could ever excuse this behavior.



I completely agree. The dying organization is ALPA...and it's happening right before our eyes. And it's not because of the actions of others. Their death is completely self-inflicted.



BS. Way too many others that reported the exact same thing of ALPA acting very unprofessionally, and the DPA guys just trying to be heard. ALPA must be so proud. If only they defended Section 1 so vigorously.

Carl

Originally Posted by shiznit

Check your post. You gave PG credit for my comments.....not cool. He is a way bigger kool-aid drinker than I can ever be considered to be!

Originally Posted by shiznit

Too much emotion Mr. Assistant greenskeeper, bolded some of it. You do make good points regardless, I'm not sure we defend our Section 1 well(or actually I think we/(you) didn't compose and protect the Section 1 very well to start.....and that goes for BOTH DLN and DLS ratification of past contracts.)

Originally Posted by shiznit

Carl, you have to take a deep breath and recognize that many ALPA reps, volunteers and supporters have many of the same problems and issues with ALPA that you do....Its is just a matter of how to solve them that the difference occurs.

Originally Posted by shiznit

1. Do you believe that the pilots of Delta Air Lines are better off if we all work together to a common goal of improvement of our PWA?

Originally Posted by shiznit

2. If yes, will you put your energy to work within DALPA if the DPA drive fails, since that will be the best way to improve our PWA?

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

Blah, blah, blah. Yawn.

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

I have no doubt that the details in this report are accurate:

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

Second, a sexually explicit and extremely profane Youtube video series was released onto the internet just prior to the Surge Week. The videos are unprofessional and a true reflection of the character of the people behind it. They denigrate DPA and celebrate ALPA. Unfortunately for the authors, evidence was left behind that DPA was able to analyze and use, pointing to specific Delta pilots. Delta management was provided the evidence because the Delta brand was being tarnished and the videos violated Delta's Social Media Policy. Management committed to throwing the “full weight of Delta Air Lines” behind the prosecution of this unprofessional behavior. It is sad that careers may be in jeopardy because individuals can find no better way to respond to DPA assertions.