Delta Pilots Association
01-04-2012 | 03:23 PM
#7151
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
What good would that do? You know fully well that reps are meaningless in our top-down union. The unelected MEC bureaucrats such as yourself have seen to that.
This is no democracy and you know it. It's a top-down power brokerage. A democracy wouldn't have killed the flight pay loss resolution. The top-down power brokerage couldn't tolerate the request for transparency.
Carl
01-04-2012 | 03:41 PM
#7152
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
I understand your concern, but that's not the problem I have personally with this. The problem I have is that many of these people are unelected, not to mention the "volunteers". We don't know what they do for their 87 to 92 hours per month at the highest category they can hold plus the 1,000 per month stipend plus expenses that are loosely accounted for. If these guys were junkyard dogs with regard to reversing scope decay and restoring our C2K contract, I'd be kicking in a little extra pay for them. Instead, we have just the opposite. Not even any TALK about reversing scope decay, and nothing but excuses as to why Delta can't afford C2K restoration for the pilots. But there's more. They do this while refusing to be transparent about who these people are and how much they are paid via flight pay loss. But there's more. Our union dues don't pay for this "activity"...management does.
So, unelected bureaucrats and volunteers operating with no transparency to manage pilot expectations downward while being paid for this activity by management. That's my concerns here.
Carl
So, unelected bureaucrats and volunteers operating with no transparency to manage pilot expectations downward while being paid for this activity by management. That's my concerns here.
Carl
01-04-2012 | 04:12 PM
#7154
Banned
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 623
Likes: 0
From: DAL
Yes!! Why can't our union commit to something, anything, to let the company know we're for real? I have seen very little "line in the sand" communiques--we DO have some lines in the sand that aren't top secret, don't we? 
DALPA, can you please go on record, so the company knows when it asks for scope relief, it's a non-starter.
Let's see a DALPA memo saying "we will not give one more seat, nor one more airframe, of scope; what's more, we are dedicated to restoring outsourced flying--and it will be one crucial cornerstone of our negotiations, along with recovery of our bankruptcy-driven pay concessions."
Why can't they say that?
DALPA, can you please go on record, so the company knows when it asks for scope relief, it's a non-starter.Let's see a DALPA memo saying "we will not give one more seat, nor one more airframe, of scope; what's more, we are dedicated to restoring outsourced flying--and it will be one crucial cornerstone of our negotiations, along with recovery of our bankruptcy-driven pay concessions."
Why can't they say that?
01-04-2012 | 04:22 PM
#7155
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,100
Likes: 86
Is it, or is it not, true that schedules less than 70 hours are deleted when considering what is "average" when computing the number to pay FPL people?
That would go a LONG way in explaining why everyone I know is getting 68 hour lines from PBS, yet the "average" pay for FPL purposes is 87 hours.
If true, the real way to make a dent in the FPL pay is to change the policy manual to take into consideration all lines down to 60 hours, versus 70.
Nu
That would go a LONG way in explaining why everyone I know is getting 68 hour lines from PBS, yet the "average" pay for FPL purposes is 87 hours.
If true, the real way to make a dent in the FPL pay is to change the policy manual to take into consideration all lines down to 60 hours, versus 70.
Nu
01-04-2012 | 04:27 PM
#7156
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Yes!! Why can't our union commit to something, anything, to let the company know we're for real? I have seen very little "line in the sand" communiques--we DO have some lines in the sand that aren't top secret, don't we? DALPA, can you please go on record, so the company knows when it asks for scope relief, it's a non-starter.
Let's see a DALPA memo saying "we will not give one more seat, nor one more airframe, of scope; what's more, we are dedicated to restoring outsourced flying--and it will be one crucial cornerstone of our negotiations, along with recovery of our bankruptcy-driven pay concessions."
Why can't they say that?
DALPA, can you please go on record, so the company knows when it asks for scope relief, it's a non-starter.Let's see a DALPA memo saying "we will not give one more seat, nor one more airframe, of scope; what's more, we are dedicated to restoring outsourced flying--and it will be one crucial cornerstone of our negotiations, along with recovery of our bankruptcy-driven pay concessions."
Why can't they say that?
1. It would be like showing your hand in poker.
2. They're waiting for the survey results. The survey results they can't share with us because of point 1.
3. They have to wait until after the scope meetings we are required to have with the MEC's of our direct regional competitors. But these meetings are really nothing.
I say they WON'T say it because:
ALPA national's strategy is to strenghthen the regionals at the expense of the majors, because ALPA national believes raising the industry from the bottom up is the better long term strategy for ALPA's survival and ALPA's prime directive of being the union for all airline pilots. Since I believe most of the MEC bureaucrats have national ambitions, DALPA is in total agreement with this strategy.
But if ALPA actually stated this, they know we major pilots would vote them out immediately. Thus they have no other choice but this shell game of double speak, false speak and "trust us" speak.
Carl
01-04-2012 | 04:28 PM
#7157
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Is it, or is it not, true that schedules less than 70 hours are deleted when considering what is "average" when computing the number to pay FPL people?
That would go a LONG way in explaining why everyone I know is getting 68 hour lines from PBS, yet the "average" pay for FPL purposes is 87 hours.
If true, the real way to make a dent in the FPL pay is to change the policy manual to take into consideration all lines down to 60 hours, versus 70.
Nu
That would go a LONG way in explaining why everyone I know is getting 68 hour lines from PBS, yet the "average" pay for FPL purposes is 87 hours.
If true, the real way to make a dent in the FPL pay is to change the policy manual to take into consideration all lines down to 60 hours, versus 70.
Nu
Carl
01-04-2012 | 05:19 PM
#7159
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
Talked to a FL buddy, interesting to hear the mess they're in but of interest he's saying a group is forming to sue ALPA and he's trying to get involved. Lots of complaints about ALPA lawyers and he was the head of a ALPA committee at his former airline.
So that could be, and I will leave it to time to see, TWA II.
So that could be, and I will leave it to time to see, TWA II.
01-04-2012 | 07:00 PM
#7160
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,196
Likes: 51
From: Legacy FO
I understand your concern, but that's not the problem I have personally with this. The problem I have is that many of these people are unelected, not to mention the "volunteers". We don't know what they do for their 87 to 92 hours per month at the highest category they can hold plus the 1,000 per month stipend plus expenses that are loosely accounted for. If these guys were junkyard dogs with regard to reversing scope decay and restoring our C2K contract, I'd be kicking in a little extra pay for them. Instead, we have just the opposite. Not even any TALK about reversing scope decay, and nothing but excuses as to why Delta can't afford C2K restoration for the pilots. But there's more. They do this while refusing to be transparent about who these people are and how much they are paid via flight pay loss. But there's more. Our union dues don't pay for this "activity"...management does.
So, unelected bureaucrats and volunteers operating with no transparency to manage pilot expectations downward while being paid for this activity by management. That's my concerns here.
Carl
So, unelected bureaucrats and volunteers operating with no transparency to manage pilot expectations downward while being paid for this activity by management. That's my concerns here.
Carl
They say they can't say it because:
1. It would be like showing your hand in poker.
2. They're waiting for the survey results. The survey results they can't share with us because of point 1.
3. They have to wait until after the scope meetings we are required to have with the MEC's of our direct regional competitors. But these meetings are really nothing.
I say they WON'T say it because:
ALPA national's strategy is to strenghthen the regionals at the expense of the majors, because ALPA national believes raising the industry from the bottom up is the better long term strategy for ALPA's survival and ALPA's prime directive of being the union for all airline pilots. Since I believe most of the MEC bureaucrats have national ambitions, DALPA is in total agreement with this strategy.
But if ALPA actually stated this, they know we major pilots would vote them out immediately. Thus they have no other choice but this shell game of double speak, false speak and "trust us" speak.
Carl
1. It would be like showing your hand in poker.
2. They're waiting for the survey results. The survey results they can't share with us because of point 1.
3. They have to wait until after the scope meetings we are required to have with the MEC's of our direct regional competitors. But these meetings are really nothing.
I say they WON'T say it because:
ALPA national's strategy is to strenghthen the regionals at the expense of the majors, because ALPA national believes raising the industry from the bottom up is the better long term strategy for ALPA's survival and ALPA's prime directive of being the union for all airline pilots. Since I believe most of the MEC bureaucrats have national ambitions, DALPA is in total agreement with this strategy.
But if ALPA actually stated this, they know we major pilots would vote them out immediately. Thus they have no other choice but this shell game of double speak, false speak and "trust us" speak.
Carl
This should be on flyers everywhere. I think it would really turn heads!!
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