DAL to replace 100 757's with 739's
08-25-2011, 06:59 AM
#141
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 777 Left
Posts: 347
Originally Posted by johnso29
Stop ruining my attempt at a positive spin! I'm trying to be optimistic. 
I was hoping if i had to leave the Bus, I would at least settle into a 76 in the future rather than squeeze into a 739 - somehow I don't feel my wallet taking up any more space though, so perhaps it will all work out.
08-25-2011, 07:04 AM
#142
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by FastDEW
I hear ya! Lol
I was hoping if i had to leave the Bus, I would at least settle into a 76 in the future rather than squeeze into a 739 - somehow I don't feel my wallet taking up any more space though, so perhaps it will all work out.
I was hoping if i had to leave the Bus, I would at least settle into a 76 in the future rather than squeeze into a 739 - somehow I don't feel my wallet taking up any more space though, so perhaps it will all work out.
08-25-2011, 07:21 AM
#143
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by johnso29
Stop ruining my attempt at a positive spin! I'm trying to be optimistic.
But I don't see a lot to jump for joy over right now. Just is what it is.
But if we get 717s out of this and solve the 100 seat question and if then we find out we got the 739s for free, well that could be a win.
08-25-2011, 09:18 AM
#144
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
Here's my thoughts on the confirmed order, i'll try to have an open mind:
Financially, the order is like treading water. Delta has the capital costs associated with the new jets and gets the maintenance savings from having under warranty aircraft.
Fuel burn/seat the new jets will save money lowering our fuel exposure over the jets they are replacing. I'm certain the capital costs soak up that savings but it reduces DALs exposure to fuel uncertainties...
We must have gotten a smoking deal from Boeing on these, because if DAL can take 19 jets a year and keep all annual capital spending below 1.2B, you do the math. (capital spending includes facilities, equipment, upgrades, you name it...
The planes tie Delta over until both next generation of Airframe/engines become available later this decade, I'm glad it doesn't include the 737-9 right now as American did.
Good news also that the jets will be purchased, not leased. That's a sign of long-term planning, instead of goosing the balance sheet short term.
Having the 737-900ER enables Delta to flex North-Atlantic traffic even more, maintaining markets when demand dries up off-season instead of pulling out all together.
For Delta pilots this deal isn't all roses.
As announced this new order is capacity neutral that means not growth.
By replacing the 757 and now 76ER those categories will shrink.
ER pilots will take a seniority hit as will lower categories.
ER Bases with limited international flying and lots of domestic might get streamlined. I can't see SLC and LAX having ER bases going forward.
Perhaps some in the ER crowd will now see the "benefit" of the AS codeshare as we downsize our jets to match the big jet at AS. In fact this will have implications should there be an SLI with AS...
Is the sky falling? No. But perhaps, one by one the pro AS codeshare crowd* can see how something that once was a small regional operation designed to provide feed on the West coast has slowly grown over time.
AS wasn't envisioned to ever fly to Hawaii so the authors left out the PWA language the protected the island flying in the otherwise similar Continental section.
I point this out, not to cast blame, but to illustrate how slowly over time a shifting environment can circumvent the original intent.
Right now, AS can fly a jet with 86 Delta pax average on every flight for a month, that's a half-full new 75/76ER replacement jet. But why would the company do that, wouldn't they just choose to fly their own aircraft?
Maybe not, maybe by having an AS jet fly to Europe, DAL can add capacity outside of the AF-KLM JV... There is nothing right now to prevent this.
At the very least the order of 737-900ER as a 75/76ER replacement should give everyone pause to rethink the AS codeshare in that context.
Cheers
George
*(I know its an oxymoron, how can you be a Delta pilot pro having-others-do-your-flying, but I digress.)
Financially, the order is like treading water. Delta has the capital costs associated with the new jets and gets the maintenance savings from having under warranty aircraft.
Fuel burn/seat the new jets will save money lowering our fuel exposure over the jets they are replacing. I'm certain the capital costs soak up that savings but it reduces DALs exposure to fuel uncertainties...
We must have gotten a smoking deal from Boeing on these, because if DAL can take 19 jets a year and keep all annual capital spending below 1.2B, you do the math. (capital spending includes facilities, equipment, upgrades, you name it...
The planes tie Delta over until both next generation of Airframe/engines become available later this decade, I'm glad it doesn't include the 737-9 right now as American did.
Good news also that the jets will be purchased, not leased. That's a sign of long-term planning, instead of goosing the balance sheet short term.
Having the 737-900ER enables Delta to flex North-Atlantic traffic even more, maintaining markets when demand dries up off-season instead of pulling out all together.
For Delta pilots this deal isn't all roses.
As announced this new order is capacity neutral that means not growth.
By replacing the 757 and now 76ER those categories will shrink.
ER pilots will take a seniority hit as will lower categories.
ER Bases with limited international flying and lots of domestic might get streamlined. I can't see SLC and LAX having ER bases going forward.
Perhaps some in the ER crowd will now see the "benefit" of the AS codeshare as we downsize our jets to match the big jet at AS. In fact this will have implications should there be an SLI with AS...
Is the sky falling? No. But perhaps, one by one the pro AS codeshare crowd* can see how something that once was a small regional operation designed to provide feed on the West coast has slowly grown over time.
AS wasn't envisioned to ever fly to Hawaii so the authors left out the PWA language the protected the island flying in the otherwise similar Continental section.
I point this out, not to cast blame, but to illustrate how slowly over time a shifting environment can circumvent the original intent.
Right now, AS can fly a jet with 86 Delta pax average on every flight for a month, that's a half-full new 75/76ER replacement jet. But why would the company do that, wouldn't they just choose to fly their own aircraft?
Maybe not, maybe by having an AS jet fly to Europe, DAL can add capacity outside of the AF-KLM JV... There is nothing right now to prevent this.
At the very least the order of 737-900ER as a 75/76ER replacement should give everyone pause to rethink the AS codeshare in that context.
Cheers
George
*(I know its an oxymoron, how can you be a Delta pilot pro having-others-do-your-flying, but I digress.)
08-25-2011, 09:25 AM
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 737A
Posts: 1,890
Maybe it was a typo, but there isn't any mention of replacing 76ERs with 737s. They did mention the 767, but the sentence addressed the domestic fleet only. Otherwise, I think your post is pretty accurate.
08-25-2011, 09:28 AM
#146
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by nwaf16dude
Maybe it was a typo, but there isn't any mention of replacing 76ERs with 737s. They did mention the 767, but the sentence addressed the domestic fleet only. Otherwise, I think your post is pretty accurate.
08-25-2011, 09:28 AM
#147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Dismayed
Posts: 1,594
Originally Posted by johnso29
Stop ruining my attempt at a positive spin! I'm trying to be optimistic.
I've been pushing the "I Believe" button since I was hired. My finger is numb and I'm really not seeing it anymore.
What worries me other than the outsourcing is we don't hear from Hauenstein (sic) and the network folks. We haven't been hearing from senior leadership like we used to via monthly chats and we continue to outsource while urging our employees to improve customer service. Last Flight the lead FA said the current IFS slogan is "Legendary Service". Just how does one manage that with 65+ year old FAs and RJs?
08-25-2011, 09:32 AM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Dismayed
Posts: 1,594
Originally Posted by georgetg
Here's my thoughts on the confirmed order, i'll try to have an open mind:
Financially, the order is like treading water. Delta has the capital costs associated with the new jets and gets the maintenance savings from having under warranty aircraft.
Fuel burn/seat the new jets will save money lowering our fuel exposure over the jets they are replacing. I'm certain the capital costs soak up that savings but it reduces DALs exposure to fuel uncertainties...
We must have gotten a smoking deal from Boeing on these, because if DAL can take 19 jets a year and keep all annual capital spending below 1.2B, you do the math. (capital spending includes facilities, equipment, upgrades, you name it...
The planes tie Delta over until both next generation of Airframe/engines become available later this decade, I'm glad it doesn't include the 737-9 right now as American did.
Good news also that the jets will be purchased, not leased. That's a sign of long-term planning, instead of goosing the balance sheet short term.
Having the 737-900ER enables Delta to flex North-Atlantic traffic even more, maintaining markets when demand dries up off-season instead of pulling out all together.
For Delta pilots this deal isn't all roses.
As announced this new order is capacity neutral that means not growth.
By replacing the 757 and now 76ER those categories will shrink.
ER pilots will take a seniority hit as will lower categories.
ER Bases with limited international flying and lots of domestic might get streamlined. I can't see SLC and LAX having ER bases going forward.
Perhaps some in the ER crowd will now see the "benefit" of the AS codeshare as we downsize our jets to match the big jet at AS. In fact this will have implications should there be an SLI with AS...
Is the sky falling? No. But perhaps, one by one the pro AS codeshare crowd* can see how something that once was a small regional operation designed to provide feed on the West coast has slowly grown over time.
AS wasn't envisioned to ever fly to Hawaii so the authors left out the PWA language the protected the island flying in the otherwise similar Continental section.
I point this out, not to cast blame, but to illustrate how slowly over time a shifting environment can circumvent the original intent.
Right now, AS can fly a jet with 86 Delta pax average on every flight for a month, that's a half-full new 75/76ER replacement jet. But why would the company do that, wouldn't they just choose to fly their own aircraft?
Maybe not, maybe by having an AS jet fly to Europe, DAL can add capacity outside of the AF-KLM JV... There is nothing right now to prevent this.
At the very least the order of 737-900ER as a 75/76ER replacement should give everyone pause to rethink the AS codeshare in that context.
Cheers
George
*(I know its an oxymoron, how can you be a Delta pilot pro having-others-do-your-flying, but I digress.)
Financially, the order is like treading water. Delta has the capital costs associated with the new jets and gets the maintenance savings from having under warranty aircraft.
Fuel burn/seat the new jets will save money lowering our fuel exposure over the jets they are replacing. I'm certain the capital costs soak up that savings but it reduces DALs exposure to fuel uncertainties...
We must have gotten a smoking deal from Boeing on these, because if DAL can take 19 jets a year and keep all annual capital spending below 1.2B, you do the math. (capital spending includes facilities, equipment, upgrades, you name it...
The planes tie Delta over until both next generation of Airframe/engines become available later this decade, I'm glad it doesn't include the 737-9 right now as American did.
Good news also that the jets will be purchased, not leased. That's a sign of long-term planning, instead of goosing the balance sheet short term.
Having the 737-900ER enables Delta to flex North-Atlantic traffic even more, maintaining markets when demand dries up off-season instead of pulling out all together.
For Delta pilots this deal isn't all roses.
As announced this new order is capacity neutral that means not growth.
By replacing the 757 and now 76ER those categories will shrink.
ER pilots will take a seniority hit as will lower categories.
ER Bases with limited international flying and lots of domestic might get streamlined. I can't see SLC and LAX having ER bases going forward.
Perhaps some in the ER crowd will now see the "benefit" of the AS codeshare as we downsize our jets to match the big jet at AS. In fact this will have implications should there be an SLI with AS...
Is the sky falling? No. But perhaps, one by one the pro AS codeshare crowd* can see how something that once was a small regional operation designed to provide feed on the West coast has slowly grown over time.
AS wasn't envisioned to ever fly to Hawaii so the authors left out the PWA language the protected the island flying in the otherwise similar Continental section.
I point this out, not to cast blame, but to illustrate how slowly over time a shifting environment can circumvent the original intent.
Right now, AS can fly a jet with 86 Delta pax average on every flight for a month, that's a half-full new 75/76ER replacement jet. But why would the company do that, wouldn't they just choose to fly their own aircraft?
Maybe not, maybe by having an AS jet fly to Europe, DAL can add capacity outside of the AF-KLM JV... There is nothing right now to prevent this.
At the very least the order of 737-900ER as a 75/76ER replacement should give everyone pause to rethink the AS codeshare in that context.
Cheers
George
*(I know its an oxymoron, how can you be a Delta pilot pro having-others-do-your-flying, but I digress.)
08-25-2011, 09:34 AM
#149
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by dragon
Johnso,
I've been pushing the "I Believe" button since I was hired. My finger is numb and I'm really not seeing it anymore.
What worries me other than the outsourcing is we don't hear from Hauenstein (sic) and the network folks. We haven't been hearing from senior leadership like we used to via monthly chats and we continue to outsource while urging our employees to improve customer service. Last Flight the lead FA said the current IFS slogan is "Legendary Service". Just how does one manage that with 65+ year old FAs and RJs?
I've been pushing the "I Believe" button since I was hired. My finger is numb and I'm really not seeing it anymore.
What worries me other than the outsourcing is we don't hear from Hauenstein (sic) and the network folks. We haven't been hearing from senior leadership like we used to via monthly chats and we continue to outsource while urging our employees to improve customer service. Last Flight the lead FA said the current IFS slogan is "Legendary Service". Just how does one manage that with 65+ year old FAs and RJs?
Its time for those of us with actual full careers invested in this company to make them make the right decisions.
08-25-2011, 09:36 AM
#150
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by dragon
Johnso,
I've been pushing the "I Believe" button since I was hired. My finger is numb and I'm really not seeing it anymore.
What worries me other than the outsourcing is we don't hear from Hauenstein (sic) and the network folks. We haven't been hearing from senior leadership like we used to via monthly chats and we continue to outsource while urging our employees to improve customer service. Last Flight the lead FA said the current IFS slogan is "Legendary Service". Just how does one manage that with 65+ year old FAs and RJs?
I've been pushing the "I Believe" button since I was hired. My finger is numb and I'm really not seeing it anymore.
What worries me other than the outsourcing is we don't hear from Hauenstein (sic) and the network folks. We haven't been hearing from senior leadership like we used to via monthly chats and we continue to outsource while urging our employees to improve customer service. Last Flight the lead FA said the current IFS slogan is "Legendary Service". Just how does one manage that with 65+ year old FAs and RJs?
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