DAL to replace 100 757's with 739's
08-24-2011, 03:45 PM
#111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Originally Posted by johnso29
If you would read your contract comparison, you would know this is certainly NOT the case. We have limits on ALL airplanes, plus very good JV language. FYI, those large RJs with UsAir colors have 86 seats in them & UAL has unlimited 70 seat RJs. That's right, unlimited. Plus the whole WB outsourcing to Air Lingus. That's just a few tidbits.
08-24-2011, 04:03 PM
#112
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by gloopy
We also outsource 86 seat jets, we just choose not to config them that way. We only "allow" 76 seats in 86 seat RJ's that we outsource because our company wants a first class in them. 76 seats for th CRJ900 wasn't an ALPA strong armed limitation, it merely mimicked the config the company intended on using the on all along.
08-24-2011, 05:33 PM
#113
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by tsquare
Betcha it comes up in section 6 that they be allowed to be converted... "Come on guys.. it's only a few hundred airplanes. Besides, they are already on the property. Think of the revenue we'll generate to buy the new widebodies we have ordered. What?? You didn't know that we are thinking about ordering a bunch of widebodies? Well.... we can't afford them unless....."
NO!
08-24-2011, 05:36 PM
#114
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Delta Said to Defer Order of 100 Small Single-Aisle Jets to 2012
By Mary Jane Credeur and Jose Sergio Osse - Aug 24, 2011 7:08 PM ET
^^^^ Maybe what Airbus should've done was offered a package deal between new A321s and EMB-19Xs to counter 739s and 717s. I think it was Airbus that was trying to join forces with Embraer to at least fight the C-Series: http://www.lesaffaires.com/secteurs-...bardier/515631
Also, George or Bar or Gloopy or any of you other smart guys, I heard that at the most the discounts on the 787 were around 50% and those were considered shocking discounts. Best guess on how much we'd pay for 100 Boeing 739s if they're actually what we're ordering?
By Mary Jane Credeur and Jose Sergio Osse - Aug 24, 2011 7:08 PM ET
Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL) put off an order of 100 small narrow-body jets until 2012, delaying talks with planemakers such as Embraer SA (EMBR3), as it prepares to buy 100 Boeing Co. (BA) 737s, a person familiar with the matter said.
Discussions with Embraer and competitor Bombardier Inc. advanced this year while Atlanta-based Delta negotiated with Boeing and Airbus SAS for larger planes, said the person, who wasn’t authorized to speak publicly. The Boeing deal was described this week by people familiar with that purchase.
“After talks with Delta, Embraer expects that Delta’s decision whether to buy its planes or equivalents from competitors will only be made next year,” Embraer Executive Vice President Paulo Cesar de Souza e Silva said in a statement.
Embraer and Bombardier are trying to create a niche for jets smaller than those from Airbus and Boeing. Single-aisle planes from Sao Jose Dos Campos, Brazil-based Embraer or Bombardier would complement Delta’s mainline fleet of Boeing and Airbus narrow-bodies.
Embraer has yet to decide whether it will build a new plane or a version of its largest regional jet with new engines to compete with the CSeries. Montreal-based Bombardier is targeting a 2013 debut for the CSeries, which has a list price of $58.3 million for the CS100 model and $66.6 million for the CS300.
Trebor Banstetter, a spokesman for Delta, and Bombardier’s John Arnone declined to comment.
People familiar with the matter had said on Aug. 22 that Delta had delayed a decision beyond this week on buying smaller narrow-body aircraft, without giving the size of the planned purchase or a new timetable.
Delta’s plan to order Boeing 737-900ERs would have a list value of about $8.58 billion, based on list prices. Airlines typically buy planes at a discount.
Discussions with Embraer and competitor Bombardier Inc. advanced this year while Atlanta-based Delta negotiated with Boeing and Airbus SAS for larger planes, said the person, who wasn’t authorized to speak publicly. The Boeing deal was described this week by people familiar with that purchase.
“After talks with Delta, Embraer expects that Delta’s decision whether to buy its planes or equivalents from competitors will only be made next year,” Embraer Executive Vice President Paulo Cesar de Souza e Silva said in a statement.
Embraer and Bombardier are trying to create a niche for jets smaller than those from Airbus and Boeing. Single-aisle planes from Sao Jose Dos Campos, Brazil-based Embraer or Bombardier would complement Delta’s mainline fleet of Boeing and Airbus narrow-bodies.
Embraer has yet to decide whether it will build a new plane or a version of its largest regional jet with new engines to compete with the CSeries. Montreal-based Bombardier is targeting a 2013 debut for the CSeries, which has a list price of $58.3 million for the CS100 model and $66.6 million for the CS300.
Trebor Banstetter, a spokesman for Delta, and Bombardier’s John Arnone declined to comment.
People familiar with the matter had said on Aug. 22 that Delta had delayed a decision beyond this week on buying smaller narrow-body aircraft, without giving the size of the planned purchase or a new timetable.
Delta’s plan to order Boeing 737-900ERs would have a list value of about $8.58 billion, based on list prices. Airlines typically buy planes at a discount.
Also, George or Bar or Gloopy or any of you other smart guys, I heard that at the most the discounts on the 787 were around 50% and those were considered shocking discounts. Best guess on how much we'd pay for 100 Boeing 739s if they're actually what we're ordering?
Last edited by forgot to bid; 08-24-2011 at 05:56 PM.
08-24-2011, 05:48 PM
#115
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
And our answer will be???............... wait for it....... wait for it............
NO!
NO!
We should take it to DC!
Get ALPA PAC to support it. Maybe the DPA too! Maybe SWAPA and the APA as well, that way, its a unified front against bait and switch tactics.
Yes, it's a joke. SWAPA loves what were doing to ourselves and ALPA PAC would be sued.
08-24-2011, 06:06 PM
#116
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by gloopy
We also outsource 86 seat jets, we just choose not to config them that way. We only "allow" 76 seats in 86 seat RJ's that we outsource because our company wants a first class in them. 76 seats for th CRJ900 wasn't an ALPA strong armed limitation, it merely mimicked the config the company intended on using the on all along.
Once again, I didn't say our scope was good. I said it wasn't the worst.
08-24-2011, 06:06 PM
#117
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by chuck416
Hi Johnso29,
No argument there....of course the New United would LOVE to have the old United's scope, and will aggressively pursue that goal. The big Q is: Will the pilot's "cave-in" for marginal gains, and sell out their junior pilots. Hopefully, our industry will converge (on scope language) to where Continental currently stands. Also, the day that some airframe manufacturer builds a comfortable, efficient, quite (in the cabin) turbo prop (think Convair type room w/ ATR72 efficiency & 430 KTAS), then, we'd ALL (pilots) be caught with our collective pants down.
Respectfully,
Chuck416
No argument there....of course the New United would LOVE to have the old United's scope, and will aggressively pursue that goal. The big Q is: Will the pilot's "cave-in" for marginal gains, and sell out their junior pilots. Hopefully, our industry will converge (on scope language) to where Continental currently stands. Also, the day that some airframe manufacturer builds a comfortable, efficient, quite (in the cabin) turbo prop (think Convair type room w/ ATR72 efficiency & 430 KTAS), then, we'd ALL (pilots) be caught with our collective pants down.
Respectfully,
Chuck416
How about we just bring back the Convair? How kick
would that be? I'll bid that in a heart beat. 
And to be fair and balanced...
^^^ picture is from MKE in... wait for it... wait for it... 19......... 88. Awesomeness.
08-24-2011, 06:07 PM
#118
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Delta Said to Defer Order of 100 Small Single-Aisle Jets to 2012
By Mary Jane Credeur and Jose Sergio Osse - Aug 24, 2011 7:08 PM ET
^^^^ Maybe what Airbus should've done was offered a package deal between new A321s and EMB-19Xs to counter 739s and 717s. I think it was Airbus that was trying to join forces with Embraer to at least fight the C-Series: EADS compte s'associer à Embraer pour concurrencer Bombardier - secteurs-d-activite - LesAffaires.com
Also, George or Bar or Gloopy or any of you other smart guys, I heard that at the most the discounts on the 787 were around 50% and those were considered shocking discounts. Best guess on how much we'd pay for 100 Boeing 739s if they're actually what we're ordering?
By Mary Jane Credeur and Jose Sergio Osse - Aug 24, 2011 7:08 PM ET
^^^^ Maybe what Airbus should've done was offered a package deal between new A321s and EMB-19Xs to counter 739s and 717s. I think it was Airbus that was trying to join forces with Embraer to at least fight the C-Series: EADS compte s'associer à Embraer pour concurrencer Bombardier - secteurs-d-activite - LesAffaires.com
Also, George or Bar or Gloopy or any of you other smart guys, I heard that at the most the discounts on the 787 were around 50% and those were considered shocking discounts. Best guess on how much we'd pay for 100 Boeing 739s if they're actually what we're ordering?
My guess is management is waiting to see what happens with UCAL's new scope plus how our Sec 6 goes.
08-24-2011, 06:09 PM
#120
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by chuck416
Hi Johnso29,
No argument there....of course the New United would LOVE to have the old United's scope, and will aggressively pursue that goal. The big Q is: Will the pilot's "cave-in" for marginal gains, and sell out their junior pilots. Hopefully, our industry will converge (on scope language) to where Continental currently stands. Also, the day that some airframe manufacturer builds a comfortable, efficient, quite (in the cabin) turbo prop (think Convair type room w/ ATR72 efficiency & 430 KTAS), then, we'd ALL (pilots) be caught with our collective pants down.
Respectfully,
Chuck416
No argument there....of course the New United would LOVE to have the old United's scope, and will aggressively pursue that goal. The big Q is: Will the pilot's "cave-in" for marginal gains, and sell out their junior pilots. Hopefully, our industry will converge (on scope language) to where Continental currently stands. Also, the day that some airframe manufacturer builds a comfortable, efficient, quite (in the cabin) turbo prop (think Convair type room w/ ATR72 efficiency & 430 KTAS), then, we'd ALL (pilots) be caught with our collective pants down.
Respectfully,
Chuck416
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