DAL to replace 100 757's with 739's
08-24-2011, 02:53 AM
#61
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Originally Posted by Clear Right
Range| Airbus, a leading aircraft manufacturer
A321 is wider, more overhead room, all around more comfy. Throw in the NEO and Winglets and that changes the whole equation. Here's a quote for you: "The Airbus A321 has similar cabin capacity as the Boeing 757, but has lacked trans-Atlantic range.* With the pending re-engining of the A320 family with the Pratt & Whitney (div. United Technologies) GTF and CFM International (joint venture, GE Aircraft Engines and SNECMA) Leap-X engines, better fuel efficiency is changing the performance equation for the aircraft. * The A321 may be the aircraft that benefits most from re-engining, as it fundamentally changes the potential mission profile from transcontinental to transatlantic in range."
A321 is wider, more overhead room, all around more comfy. Throw in the NEO and Winglets and that changes the whole equation. Here's a quote for you: "The Airbus A321 has similar cabin capacity as the Boeing 757, but has lacked trans-Atlantic range.* With the pending re-engining of the A320 family with the Pratt & Whitney (div. United Technologies) GTF and CFM International (joint venture, GE Aircraft Engines and SNECMA) Leap-X engines, better fuel efficiency is changing the performance equation for the aircraft. * The A321 may be the aircraft that benefits most from re-engining, as it fundamentally changes the potential mission profile from transcontinental to transatlantic in range."
I think you missed the little part about when the NEO is available. Boeing is also coming out with a reengined 737 again however not available when Delta needs jets. Not to mention that at the moment both of these are paper jets. It was thought the NEO would be a easy change for the A320. It has turned out not to be so and Airbus is short on engineers. They now admit it needs among other things. New landing gear, New main wingbox. Stronger wing box attach points, New pylons. It will be interesting to see if they even have the A320 version out on time let alone the A321 Delta would want coming out later. These jets are for delivery in 2013 to 2017. You can't buy what does not exist.
The other thing people keep forgetting it that this is a replacement aircraft for some 757 at Delta. We will keep plenty of 757's in the fleet to cover those routes that require the extra performance until the 900NE and A321NEO are truly available. Probably be around 2019 on those aircraft given the normal delays both Boeing and Airbus seem to have.
Last edited by sailingfun; 08-24-2011 at 03:03 AM.
08-24-2011, 02:58 AM
#62
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
You can't buy what does not exist.
And everyone who bought the 787 did and guess what, it still doesn't "exist." (there really should be a tongue and cheek smilie, we don't have a lot of smilies to work with here.)
08-24-2011, 03:00 AM
#63
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Originally Posted by gloopy
Actually if he really wanted to hose us he would suck it up and plan on keeping their 717's long term and saddle us with a tiny fleet of 20 planes and yet another (effectively) fleet type.
08-24-2011, 03:03 AM
#64
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Originally Posted by gloopy
That makes sense. Of course the hidden variable here is what kind of insane deal did we get on these (if the rumor is true)? I never heard a figure for the compensation we are due for the 787 delays and our generous order book relief (two related but separate issues) but I have a feeling the dollar figure is substantial.
A 100 plane firm order (if that is what this is) alone would generate significant discounts over list price. Apply what are probably massive rebates for the 787 mess and these things could be too cheap to pass up. IOW a guaranteed financial win. That is, assuming we still have customers after getting in bed with gojets. Where's the [/barf] icon again?
A 100 plane firm order (if that is what this is) alone would generate significant discounts over list price. Apply what are probably massive rebates for the 787 mess and these things could be too cheap to pass up. IOW a guaranteed financial win. That is, assuming we still have customers after getting in bed with gojets. Where's the [/barf] icon again?
08-24-2011, 03:08 AM
#65
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
Why do people keep making up the rumor Delta wants the 717?
It's nothing to be upset about. Or is it because it's not a Boeing that's the problem?
I was in the crewroom one day when ALPA was there and some Captain walked up to the rep and asked "what are you doing here?" The Rep explained he was on a listening tour, is there anything you want?
'Yeah, get rid of all the Airbuses."
Now what kind of blatantly ignorant stuck on stupid thought process is that? Seriously, that's how we end up with scope sales. After all Bombardier aren't Boeings, so the I ain't flying them crowd is how we get to a DCI fleet the size of mainline.
I'll fly anything Delta wants to slap it's name on, even a 1977 B58P, Embraer 120 or a 2013 739, i don't care.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 08-24-2011 at 03:51 AM.
08-24-2011, 03:38 AM
#66
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Originally Posted by TenYearsGone
Sorry for being so DUMB
Are you sure Delta is getting the 737-900er? I haven't read any official announcement on Deltanet, on the other hand the info I am getting is just speculation.
If the -900er rumor is true, then I bet we are eyeing another airline (which has future additional 737 orders, hint hint) to acquire. Just sayin.
TEN
Are you sure Delta is getting the 737-900er? I haven't read any official announcement on Deltanet, on the other hand the info I am getting is just speculation.
If the -900er rumor is true, then I bet we are eyeing another airline (which has future additional 737 orders, hint hint
) to acquire. Just sayin.TEN
08-24-2011, 03:41 AM
#67
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
That's a good question. Combine all the ER and the ATL 767 categories and you have 257 jets and 3,760 pilots flying them. Take 100 757s away and move them to the lower paying 739 and that's a lot of pilots to cut. At 14.6 pilots per plane (give or take for ER considerations) you're looking to move 1,400+ pilots off the ER and the lone ATL domestic 767 category.
And that's if only 100 757s disappear. What if it's more but only 100 739 replacements?
Time will tell.
And that's IF this whole 739 is true.
And that's if only 100 757s disappear. What if it's more but only 100 739 replacements?
Time will tell.
And that's IF this whole 739 is true.
Since LGBP won't fly, ya'll seriously need to get a clue about WB/NB pay... And THAT is lame too.... but better than what we got. How many paycuts will be coming our way with this order (if true)?
08-24-2011, 03:50 AM
#68
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Because the former CLCP for the 88 said the Board wanted it and that SWA wanted to get rid of theirs.
Yet some of you believe these "sources"?
It is fun to watch all the kvetching over a potential new aircraft order, though. MD-90's get panned, 737's get panned, network gets panned, yet we're making money in a crap economy. That bodes well to get some money back into our contract, but reading here it's all doom, gloom and whine from some of the usual suspects. Nice...
08-24-2011, 03:55 AM
#69
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Originally Posted by slowplay
Just curious...how much do you think a CLCP knows about fleet strategy and aircraft acquisition? Or how much a Fleet Captain knows about network and revenue management (aircraft allocation)? Or how much anybody not on the BOD knows about BOD deliberations? You might want to look at an org chart and see if these folks are anywhere near the aircraft acquisition and deployment process...
Yet some of you believe these "sources"?
It is fun to watch all the kvetching over a potential new aircraft order, though. MD-90's get panned, 737's get panned, network gets panned, yet we're making money in a crap economy. That bodes well to get some money back into our contract, but reading here it's all doom, gloom and whine from some of the usual suspects. Nice...
Yet some of you believe these "sources"?
It is fun to watch all the kvetching over a potential new aircraft order, though. MD-90's get panned, 737's get panned, network gets panned, yet we're making money in a crap economy. That bodes well to get some money back into our contract, but reading here it's all doom, gloom and whine from some of the usual suspects. Nice...
It's a Boeing or....
08-24-2011, 03:56 AM
#70
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Originally Posted by tsquare
But by all means, let's make sure the 747 pays $500/hour and everything goes down from there... anybody starting to see the picture here?
Since LGBP won't fly, ya'll seriously need to get a clue about WB/NB pay... And THAT is lame too.... but better than what we got. How many paycuts will be coming our way with this order (if true)?
Since LGBP won't fly, ya'll seriously need to get a clue about WB/NB pay... And THAT is lame too.... but better than what we got. How many paycuts will be coming our way with this order (if true)?
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