Scope Proposal at American
11-15-2011, 06:50 AM
#21
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Position: CRJ CA
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by FIIGMO
Why not just bring the jets to mainline and not have a B scale. Any support along these lines will only produce more RJ flying. As a former RJ guy I will not accept that. NOTHING GOOD at all going on here.... This b scale scam will do nothing to change QOL for any commercial pilot at any level. This needs to be fought....... time to take a stand.
11-15-2011, 06:52 AM
#22
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Have only skimmed it, but it looks like still WAY too many holes in the dike. In fact, one need only look at the DURATION section to simply stop wasting time looking at anything else. It's dead in the water for me.
The DURATION section is absurd (2 contracts or 10 years, whichever is LONGER). AMR has already proven they can stall for a half decade when it suits their interests and could conceivably go another 5 years if it was in their best interest. Work rules and pay scales would therefore be the LAST virtually EVERY current AA pilot would see due to their ages. No more bargaining and the ability to regain anything lost should UAL and DAL be more successful in their efforts due to the threat of bankruptcy absent. However, that's unlikely if this becomes reality, for it's certain to drag them downward as well.
Is all this a coincidence ?
I think not.
But it gets WORSE !!!!
AMR actually wants to IMPLIMENT contractual benefits for themselves BEFORE THE CONTRACT IS EVEN RATIFIED...........without even specific final contractual language, but only "bullet points" (AKA AIP - Agreement in Principle) ! Talk about bypassing the whole railway labor act fair bargaining process and pole-vaulting over the MEC and BOD !
This strategy is becoming OBSCENE and quite frankly it appears that the same management team that has slowly run AA aground for the last decade is about to blow a hole in is bottom with one of the ships cannon's.
Parhaps that's the "cannon shot" pilots have been warned about for the last year ?
Time to sound the General quarters alarm and be ready to abandon ship. It sounds as if the rising water is inevitable. Keep your ears clean and wait for the loud BANG of the cannon !
The camel is DESPERATE to get his nose into the tent flap to have a lower bankruptcy bargaining point !
The DURATION section is absurd (2 contracts or 10 years, whichever is LONGER). AMR has already proven they can stall for a half decade when it suits their interests and could conceivably go another 5 years if it was in their best interest. Work rules and pay scales would therefore be the LAST virtually EVERY current AA pilot would see due to their ages. No more bargaining and the ability to regain anything lost should UAL and DAL be more successful in their efforts due to the threat of bankruptcy absent. However, that's unlikely if this becomes reality, for it's certain to drag them downward as well.
Is all this a coincidence ?
I think not.
But it gets WORSE !!!!
AMR actually wants to IMPLIMENT contractual benefits for themselves BEFORE THE CONTRACT IS EVEN RATIFIED...........without even specific final contractual language, but only "bullet points" (AKA AIP - Agreement in Principle) ! Talk about bypassing the whole railway labor act fair bargaining process and pole-vaulting over the MEC and BOD !
This strategy is becoming OBSCENE and quite frankly it appears that the same management team that has slowly run AA aground for the last decade is about to blow a hole in is bottom with one of the ships cannon's.
Parhaps that's the "cannon shot" pilots have been warned about for the last year ?
Time to sound the General quarters alarm and be ready to abandon ship. It sounds as if the rising water is inevitable. Keep your ears clean and wait for the loud BANG of the cannon !
The camel is DESPERATE to get his nose into the tent flap to have a lower bankruptcy bargaining point !
Last edited by eaglefly; 11-15-2011 at 07:05 AM.
11-15-2011, 06:55 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
Originally Posted by aa73
I wouldn't say "most" would vote for this... there is a minority here that is convinced the sky is falling... but the majority will never vote for this.
Like I said above, 25% up front and 7% per year is a good start for me to consider voting Yes. Anything less is concessionary and an insult.
Like I said above, 25% up front and 7% per year is a good start for me to consider voting Yes. Anything less is concessionary and an insult.
11-15-2011, 07:00 AM
#24
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
Originally Posted by aa73
NO, NO, Hell NO.
Vote NO to offer and YES to Strike! Enough of this crAAp!
Vote NO to offer and YES to Strike! Enough of this crAAp!
How many years has AMR been "limp wrist'in" APA at the table??? "Serious" is not in G.A.'s vocabulary.
Enough is ENOUGH.
11-15-2011, 07:15 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Capt
Posts: 2,035
Originally Posted by Flyby1206
http://aanegotiations.com/documents/...eSummaries.pdf
The negotiations are getting interesting, APA is obviously at a point where they will have to decide to either keep a strong scope clause (the above proposal) with a minimal pay increase, or sell out scope (E175s at regional carriers) in exchange for a larger pay raise.
The negotiations are getting interesting, APA is obviously at a point where they will have to decide to either keep a strong scope clause (the above proposal) with a minimal pay increase, or sell out scope (E175s at regional carriers) in exchange for a larger pay raise.
Last edited by UAL T38 Phlyer; 11-15-2011 at 07:55 AM. Reason: TOS (Language)
11-15-2011, 07:19 AM
#27
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Eric Stratton
Typical pilot willing to screw over those junior to him for a raise.
Carl
11-15-2011, 07:28 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 631
25-7-7 sounds great...but if you lose jobs to scope...AND lose those payrates to BK judge...then worse off than you are now!
payrates are great...but ironclad scope is way better! scope and seniority last forever...payrates will come and go.
payrates are great...but ironclad scope is way better! scope and seniority last forever...payrates will come and go.
11-15-2011, 07:35 AM
#29
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by LandGreen2
25-7-7 sounds great...but if you lose jobs to scope...AND lose those payrates to BK judge...then worse off than you are now!
payrates are great...but ironclad scope is way better! scope and seniority last forever...payrates will come and go.
payrates are great...but ironclad scope is way better! scope and seniority last forever...payrates will come and go.
Carl
11-15-2011, 07:44 AM
#30
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Sounds like AMR already has a merger planned. Perhaps that's the reason for the sudden rush ?
The CP contains a provision that modify seniority merger provisons to comply with McCaskill-Bond legislation so they can just do a merger and not worry it will fail due to seniority disagreements throwing that into binding arbitration (although some consider arbitration non-binding).
The CP contains a provision that modify seniority merger provisons to comply with McCaskill-Bond legislation so they can just do a merger and not worry it will fail due to seniority disagreements throwing that into binding arbitration (although some consider arbitration non-binding).
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