..... while relegating those below me to a career at the regionals!

I got mine!

Seems some guys are more concerned that your flying may be outsourced to regionals than Alaska/JetBlue. Keep in mind that neither of those groups "own" their flying. Alaska has NO scope protection, JetBlue has FAKE scope protection. I haven't read the full proposal, but perhaps your "code share" flights might be operated by SkyWest afterall.

So you believe the model on the table along with future aircraft orders doesn't position us for growth and opens the door to a lot of hiring in the future?

Is the converse true, do you believe that having a contract that surpasses everyone else will provide the growth many desperately seek? (Both the company and others have said this isn't sustainable).

Care to offer up a few concrete ways we can have the latter and move more folks from the regionals to the majors quicker?

Sure. TAKE BACK SCOPE!

The problem with a web board is it's easy to misinterpret how something should come across. Anger wasn't the intent, disappointment or here we go again is more in line with the intent. I have no problem with people calling me out when I'm wrong or off. From what memory served of aa73 I didn't expect to hear that he would consider that proposal for a 25/7% raise and that's where the comment came from. I do find it funny that I got called a troll and told to go away though. I never said Carl sold out his peers I said his fellow pilots (and depending on how he voted, maybe him) did even after they claimed they hated Mesaba's Avro's. They clearly didn't hate it enough not to do it again and it was for their gain. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if aa73 meant the comment the way I read it. I didn't call him a troll though.

I'm curious what my grudges are since they are obvious?

Maybe because management knows they can't get scope relief from the courts even in bankruptcy. They have to get that locked down by concent and they know it. What's strange is that they went all stick and very little carrot.

Tomahawk, there is no way you can be a pilot with such a pedestrian intelligence. MAAnagement maybe, or perhaps part of a paid consultancy.


Every true aviator knows that "future aircraft orders" are meaningless. They are not a guaranty of growth as they can be changed or converted on a whim.

That utopian vision will not put food on the table or a child into college.

Pay raises and better work rules will if the same rules add to the family financial bottom line. Aircarft orders??? "Promised growth???" YGTBSM.

Not only that, but with a massive fleet of 88's and 76's needing replaced in the future, big aircraft orders could only mean staying the same size or even shrinking if narrowbody codeshare relief is offered.

Very true. And don't you think that kinda falls into the column labeled "management's job"?

And how have they done?

In 2003, everyone "pulled together". Look where that got us.

Time for a change.

Mink, I'm sorry but I can't buy the "I just work here" mentality. If folks are ready to sink the ship to make their point, don't expect shouts of gratitude.

We did indeed pull together which is exactly the reason we didn't go down the BK route the last 10 years. Again, give me one promise made to us pilots resulting from the 2003 contract that hasn't been kept. Just one!