Odds of Delta TA passing
05-28-2012 | 05:54 PM
#111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 758
Likes: 0
I hesitate to respond to these posts, as they're all pretty much the same.
How does your 19.7% payrate increase sound if we're still negotiating in 2-3 years with NO pay increase? I'm not playing the fear card, just weighing my options. Of course I'd rather have that 19.7% indexed up with inflation but that's not the offer on the table.
2 Choices:
1. Vote Yes - Known result and definitely more $ in the bank. Not as much as any of us want, but way better than the rest of our industry peers.
2. Vote No - Spin the wheel. Will we get more? Will we be told to pound sand, and see you at the end of the NMB cycle in 29 months??
Not trying to be confrontational. I just don't get the whole "ALPA's ignoring inflation" argument. We all want more money, but how much are you losing against inflation if you don't have any pay increases for the next 3 years? Honest question.
How does your 19.7% payrate increase sound if we're still negotiating in 2-3 years with NO pay increase? I'm not playing the fear card, just weighing my options. Of course I'd rather have that 19.7% indexed up with inflation but that's not the offer on the table.
2 Choices:
1. Vote Yes - Known result and definitely more $ in the bank. Not as much as any of us want, but way better than the rest of our industry peers.
2. Vote No - Spin the wheel. Will we get more? Will we be told to pound sand, and see you at the end of the NMB cycle in 29 months??
Not trying to be confrontational. I just don't get the whole "ALPA's ignoring inflation" argument. We all want more money, but how much are you losing against inflation if you don't have any pay increases for the next 3 years? Honest question.
I understand the fear. It is a gamble. Management never would have engaged us this early without needing something. Why would they all of a sudden walk away? Managment wants to get rid of 50 seaters. They are forecasting billions in profits. They have a good deal on 717s. Labor peace helps them secure loans for new planes. When have we ever had more leverage? Your call. Scope is number one for me though.
05-28-2012 | 05:55 PM
#112
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
Keep taking your time. While you stall, take a look at AMR and APA's current scope proposal. Have fun fighting that once the BK judge gives them part of that.If our TA does pass, and Smisek mirrors it you can thank us for finally fixing your heavy metal scope and improving your scope overall. At least somebody finally will.
Last edited by johnso29; 05-28-2012 at 06:34 PM.
05-28-2012 | 05:57 PM
#113
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
05-28-2012 | 06:09 PM
#115
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
05-28-2012 | 06:11 PM
#116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Likes: 0
Correct me if I am wrong but the last section 6 included retro.
I understand the fear. It is a gamble. Management never would have engaged us this early without needing something. Why would they all of a sudden walk away? Managment wants to get rid of 50 seaters. They are forecasting billions in profits. They have a good deal on 717s. Labor peace helps them secure loans for new planes. When have we ever had more leverage? Your call. Scope is number one for me though.
I understand the fear. It is a gamble. Management never would have engaged us this early without needing something. Why would they all of a sudden walk away? Managment wants to get rid of 50 seaters. They are forecasting billions in profits. They have a good deal on 717s. Labor peace helps them secure loans for new planes. When have we ever had more leverage? Your call. Scope is number one for me though.
05-28-2012 | 06:32 PM
#117
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
This is misleading. Yes they could grow the 76 seaters under our contract if mainline hits the threshold. However, they could not reach 255 76 seaters without dumping every single 70 seater. They are at the limit on both. To increase 1 76 seater they would have to dump 1 70 seater.
05-28-2012 | 09:16 PM
#118
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
05-28-2012 | 10:13 PM
#119
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,253
Likes: 0
Yeah, and you guys sure are doing your part. Thanks for putting another rung in the ladder. Keep taking your time. While you stall, take a look at AMR and APA's current scope proposal. Have fun fighting that once the BK judge gives them part of that.
If our TA does pass, and Smisek mirrors it you can thank us for finally fixing your heavy metal scope and improving your scope overall. At least somebody finally will.
Keep taking your time. While you stall, take a look at AMR and APA's current scope proposal. Have fun fighting that once the BK judge gives them part of that.If our TA does pass, and Smisek mirrors it you can thank us for finally fixing your heavy metal scope and improving your scope overall. At least somebody finally will.
And i'm sure the APA guys will be thrilled to get infested with 90 seat sized jets. Btw my pilot group is full of scabs but somehow never bent over enough to allow 70 seaters. How silly we all were to think that we could take back or at least hold the ground in the 'regional jet' cabin size game after getting spanked by it. Mmmmm carrots!
05-29-2012 | 02:28 AM
#120
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
Sorry if you think I was misleading. Didn't mean to be. Yes you are correct, all the 70 seaters would be converted to 76 seaters. Do you think my premise that Delta management still gets the 717's and pumps and dumps is viable?
In my estimation, what we are really talking about is allowing 70 more 70 seaters versus 76 seaters. This is based on the ability of the company to get more 76 seaters under the current contract after meeting the criteria in my previous post.
Denny
In my estimation, what we are really talking about is allowing 70 more 70 seaters versus 76 seaters. This is based on the ability of the company to get more 76 seaters under the current contract after meeting the criteria in my previous post.
Denny
That is an interesting perspective, and one that I had not considered. I think guys should take a real hard look at this...
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
