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Quote:

Originally Posted by Southerner (Post 1460303)

I know what the problems are. You and I just disagree on the solution. I prefer to not jump from the frying pan into the fire. But hey, some people need to actually experience their mistakes to learn anything. I'll be happy to tell you "I told you so" a year after ALPA gets voted in.

If we vote ALPA in, it will take at least 2 contracts to get back to where we are right now. It isn't an instant fix. Plus, I figure we've got enough politics, so why add another political group?

So you can give me crap about being junior, but my vote will still cancel yours out. :)

Southerner, I have to ask. Do you have an understanding of business statistics?

JetBlue Pilots are OUTLIERS in many categories of their compensation. Worse, the probability or improvement of EVER reaching even industry AVERAGE in compensation and benefits, under the DR model, is EXTREMELY unlikely.

That's a FACT!

The DR is not going to deliver. There's only ONE alternative.

OTHER PILOT GROUPS negotiate and HAVE NEGOTIATED better compensation/ Benefits/ Protections etc.

What BENEFIT do you see JB Pilots enjoying under the DR????????????????

When you go making major purchases, does the other guy just tell you the price and you just accept it and pay up? Or, do you employ some business acumen and NEGOTIATE for what YOU believe is a fair deal?

JJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southerner (Post 1460303)

This two contract horsesh!t is right out of the Ford and Harrison playbook and has no historical relevance. Name the precedent!

Maybe Dave is whispering this in your ear....try thinking for yourself and give us the facts jack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetlink (Post 1460681)

Right, you turned down UAL with 400+ retirement annually for 10 years and then 700+ , 100K + second year pay on the smallest a/c, and 16% retirement plan with out BS, not mentioning healthcare coverage.
jetBlue was great, but can't compete with new 3 legacy players anymore, or in compensation for pilots.
Since November, I have moved 5% in seniority within 10K pilot group. The latest UA bid for SFO shows additional 200+ vacancies no filled from system 14-2.
In two years of jetBlue experience on A320 I wasn't moving at all. The movement in jetBlue will be at the bottom 20%, after the rest of the DAL and AA guys go back. The average age of pilots in jetBlue is 42, if you the bottom guy, even if the company doubles in size, you will be stuck for 20 years as a junior CA.
Ask yourself, if JB is such a great place to be, why senior CA bailing out back to DAL?
This is business, noting personal, the moment JB encounters some rough waters, you'll see what direct relationship means, and then your truly yours Managment will bail, after selling you out.

Or they could could just lay off more pilots and shrink to profitability. Plus i don't care to commute to Newark or Houston for the next couple of year when i drive to work. The decision didn't take to long for me and my family. However, If that was DAL I wouldn't have thought twice. Yes I am rolling the dice by staying over going to UAL, only history will tell. You are 100 percent right about the DR and management, I know they will sell us out that is why we need a CBA. As for captains bailing to go back to DAL, AA or UAL who could blame them, I certainly don't. That is a whole different deal than starting over at a new company.

Southerner, we will make gains in the first contract. The company knows we are going to obtain a CBA. Hence the butt raping over the past 2+ years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetlink (Post 1460681)

Why do you care?
Guys get so upset about what other people do.
The real question for blue pilots is vote in a union or not.
I don't remember climb being a juicer he seems to see the bad and dare I say the good sides of jeBlue.

Climb450 gets it. UAL DaL ect, isn't for everyone.

Southerner on the other hand, probably never will.

Jetblue movement...

Whatever. I see the good and bad of B6. I just don't agree with you guys about the solution.

We can disagree. It's okay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southerner (Post 1460902)

Whatever. I see the good and bad of B6. I just don't agree with you guys about the solution.

We can disagree. It's okay

Will you at least agree we need a change?

Jetblue movement...

I've said over and over that I see the problems. I do NOT think ALPA is the solution. I would prefer a CBA with an in house union.

I think market forces are going to fix our issues way faster than a union ever could. Attrition will demand change. Businesses respond to market forces.

Southern,

In house only works if the company (ELT) supports it.....btw this has been tried......ELT did NOT support it. They felt kicked in the teeth.

Everyone (pilots) would prefer to settle the issues gentlemanly.....company does not want you to be a partner in the solution. Small in house union has a small Buget(all coming from YOUR personal paycheck...I.E. no seed money (loan) from our fellow airline pilots) Do you know what they will do to our small budget.......ask the AirTran guys, ask FedEx, he!! Ask the continental guys. Ask anyone of them.

But if you want an house......start the drive!