Recall of DAL MEC Officers
10-14-2013, 12:48 PM
#111
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,990
Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob
And everyone wonders why more people don't volunteer?
Now, while watching buffoonery on a national level, we get to watch it on a local, personal level.
Shenanigans I tells ya!
Now, while watching buffoonery on a national level, we get to watch it on a local, personal level.
Shenanigans I tells ya!
Someone say Shennanigans?
10-14-2013, 12:52 PM
#112
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
You might be right on this. But although Kingsley was a Moak disciple, I'm hearing he's had a genuine change of heart. When half of the elected reps are writing letters describing DALPA as a top-down, heavy handed dictatorship, you have to take notice. Especially when it is that very behavior that has brought over 5,600 cards to the DPA.
My hope is that Kingsley's finding of religion is a true conversion. I further hope that he wins this and the 4 Moak disciples he fired stay fired...Especially Capt Rick Dominguez. But like Reagan said: Trust, but verify.
Carl
My hope is that Kingsley's finding of religion is a true conversion. I further hope that he wins this and the 4 Moak disciples he fired stay fired...Especially Capt Rick Dominguez. But like Reagan said: Trust, but verify.
Carl
10-14-2013, 01:14 PM
#114
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 147
Current events were put into motion quite awhile ago when Council 20 and Council 1 threw in their support for Kingsley Roberts. From the beginning, there has been a division within the MEC along former NWA and Delta lines. The NWA councils have to be opposed to the Delta councils. There can be no other way. Their behavior during the contract ratification process demonstrated that there will never be unity unless former NWA thinking is universally adopted.
Now we have a food fight. We are losing credibility with management. I think this is very sad, especially for the ones who whine about not getting enough restoration and who have nonetheless become quite used to getting annual pay increases. Those will most certainly come to an end when we adopt the former NWA way of unionism. Maybe it will get so bad that we will try the APA way of unionism. Perhaps we'll really lose our minds and give the USAPA way the good old college try and toss our chips all in with the DPA.
Prediction: nothing happens at the MEC meeting. Status quo is maintained.
Sadly, no matter what we call the union, the same pilots will represent the same pilots. The same games will endure. Former NWA versus former DAL. In 15 or 20 years we will be rid of those who play the game for the game's sake.
Now we have a food fight. We are losing credibility with management. I think this is very sad, especially for the ones who whine about not getting enough restoration and who have nonetheless become quite used to getting annual pay increases. Those will most certainly come to an end when we adopt the former NWA way of unionism. Maybe it will get so bad that we will try the APA way of unionism. Perhaps we'll really lose our minds and give the USAPA way the good old college try and toss our chips all in with the DPA.
Prediction: nothing happens at the MEC meeting. Status quo is maintained.
Sadly, no matter what we call the union, the same pilots will represent the same pilots. The same games will endure. Former NWA versus former DAL. In 15 or 20 years we will be rid of those who play the game for the game's sake.
10-14-2013, 01:28 PM
#116
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,990
Sharpest Tool,
Why can't we adopt the best thinking, no matter the source ... a marketplace of ideas? I'm Bucking Bar, we can't drive rivets without your big sharp tool and my resistance to bend them into shape so they are effective fasteners.
Unionism involves unity. Unity means allowing participation and working together towards a common goal.
Unfortunately I see none of that happening and it is very nearly an internal fight that only involves the former South side of our house. The North Reps have mostly been observers of this drama ... but I think they state the concerns of a majority of South pilots too when they state:
If just half of those people who are disenfranchised, marginalized, or just plain angered by this power grab send in cards for a representational election, it won't matter who's best friend is in a Committee position.
The minority of us who actually care about the future of this Association are saddened and disappointed by the short term "my guy versus your guy" thinking that refuses any compromise.
Why can't we adopt the best thinking, no matter the source ... a marketplace of ideas? I'm Bucking Bar, we can't drive rivets without your big sharp tool and my resistance to bend them into shape so they are effective fasteners.
Unionism involves unity. Unity means allowing participation and working together towards a common goal.
Unfortunately I see none of that happening and it is very nearly an internal fight that only involves the former South side of our house. The North Reps have mostly been observers of this drama ... but I think they state the concerns of a majority of South pilots too when they state:
We decided to run for these offices to attempt to have an effect on how DALPA does business. We were tired of the top-down, authoritarian, opaque, minimally communicative (other than technical issues), sometimes heavy handed manner that the DALPA has done business under the previous two MEC CH. We appreciate the changes, some albeit incremental, that are underway and don’t want to see regression back to “the way we’ve always done it”. We have extreme concerns that if Capt. Roberts is replaced then we’ll be venturing back towards an attitude and way of doing business that frankly helped catalyze creating Association dissenters.
The minority of us who actually care about the future of this Association are saddened and disappointed by the short term "my guy versus your guy" thinking that refuses any compromise.
10-14-2013, 01:31 PM
#117
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by SharpestTool
Current events were put into motion quite awhile ago when Council 20 and Council 1 threw in their support for the Kingsley Roberts. From the beginning, there has been a division within the MEC along former NWA and Delta lines. The NWA councils have to be opposed to the Delta councils. There can be no other way. Their behavior during the contract ratification process demonstrated that there will never be unity unless former NWA thinking is universally adopted.
Now we have a food fight. We are losing credibility with management. I think this is very sad, especially for the ones who who whine about not getting enough restoration and who have nonetheless become quite used to getting annual pay increases. Those will most certainly come to an end when we adopt the former NWA way of unionism. Maybe it will get so bad that we will try the APA way of unionism. Perhaps we'll really lose our minds and give the USAPA way the good old college try and toss our chips all in with the DPA.
Prediction: nothing happens at the MEC meeting. Status quo is maintained.
Sadly, no matter what we call the union, the same pilots will represent the same pilots. The same games will endure. Former NWA versus former DAL. In 15 or 20 years we will be rid of those who play the game for the game's sake.
Now we have a food fight. We are losing credibility with management. I think this is very sad, especially for the ones who who whine about not getting enough restoration and who have nonetheless become quite used to getting annual pay increases. Those will most certainly come to an end when we adopt the former NWA way of unionism. Maybe it will get so bad that we will try the APA way of unionism. Perhaps we'll really lose our minds and give the USAPA way the good old college try and toss our chips all in with the DPA.
Prediction: nothing happens at the MEC meeting. Status quo is maintained.
Sadly, no matter what we call the union, the same pilots will represent the same pilots. The same games will endure. Former NWA versus former DAL. In 15 or 20 years we will be rid of those who play the game for the game's sake.
First off, you don't know what you're talking about. This current fight doesn't involve fNWA people at all. Even a cursory read of the communications would have told you that. So you are clearly a Moak disciple that is now trying to make this a North versus South fight in order to unify South pilots in the hopes of getting 51%. Very cynical, but typical of the Moak political strategy. Just like Iran faking unity amongst its people by continually evoking "The Great Satan."
You and Mr. Moak should be ashamed of yourself using this kind of scorched earth policy. Our two groups ARE unified. The vast majority of us actually like each other. Despite your shameless attempt st driving a wedge.
With regard to your name...you're half right.
Carl
10-14-2013, 01:32 PM
#118
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 147
Originally Posted by zoomiezombie
I'm junior and John Malone did way more damage to my career than Lee Moak did. I don't know why there's so much paranoia about a guy who isn't even working for Delta right now.
Malone gutted our scope for pay. The majority of DAL pilots voted for the gutting. That wound was a serious one and was the source of major misery over the last decade.
10-14-2013, 01:33 PM
#119
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: 73 lifer
Posts: 130
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
The North Reps have mostly been observers of this drama ...
10-14-2013, 01:37 PM
#120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 757 Left
Posts: 1,306
Originally Posted by SharpestTool
Current events were put into motion quite awhile ago when Council 20 and Council 1 threw in their support for Kingsley Roberts. From the beginning, there has been a division within the MEC along former NWA and Delta lines. The NWA councils have to be opposed to the Delta councils. There can be no other way. Their behavior during the contract ratification process demonstrated that there will never be unity unless former NWA thinking is universally adopted.
Now we have a food fight. We are losing credibility with management. I think this is very sad, especially for the ones who whine about not getting enough restoration and who have nonetheless become quite used to getting annual pay increases. Those will most certainly come to an end when we adopt the former NWA way of unionism. Maybe it will get so bad that we will try the APA way of unionism. Perhaps we'll really lose our minds and give the USAPA way the good old college try and toss our chips all in with the DPA.
Prediction: nothing happens at the MEC meeting. Status quo is maintained.
Sadly, no matter what we call the union, the same pilots will represent the same pilots. The same games will endure. Former NWA versus former DAL. In 15 or 20 years we will be rid of those who play the game for the game's sake.
Now we have a food fight. We are losing credibility with management. I think this is very sad, especially for the ones who whine about not getting enough restoration and who have nonetheless become quite used to getting annual pay increases. Those will most certainly come to an end when we adopt the former NWA way of unionism. Maybe it will get so bad that we will try the APA way of unionism. Perhaps we'll really lose our minds and give the USAPA way the good old college try and toss our chips all in with the DPA.
Prediction: nothing happens at the MEC meeting. Status quo is maintained.
Sadly, no matter what we call the union, the same pilots will represent the same pilots. The same games will endure. Former NWA versus former DAL. In 15 or 20 years we will be rid of those who play the game for the game's sake.
Last edited by Hawaii50; 10-14-2013 at 01:54 PM.
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