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Who's been hired? [New Employer Can ID You!]
05-20-2015 | 02:48 PM
#1361
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
From: 756
Mil percentage is under 50%.
I remember reading an article in the early 1980's that 93% of the previous year's hiring had been prior military.
Military guys are almost guaranteed a major airline job. But it comes years after the opportunities of the civilian guys. Check out the seniority lists and the really impressive careers are going to the civilian guys who get hired young(er).
I remember reading an article in the early 1980's that 93% of the previous year's hiring had been prior military.
Military guys are almost guaranteed a major airline job. But it comes years after the opportunities of the civilian guys. Check out the seniority lists and the really impressive careers are going to the civilian guys who get hired young(er).
05-20-2015 | 06:29 PM
#1362
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 963
Likes: 0
From: Up front
That's an interesting take. At WAI Delta and United both showed stats for new hires and they each had roughly 45% pure military and 45% pure civilian with the remaining 10% a mixture of both backgrounds. Definitely a military bias in the hiring pool as a whole.
05-20-2015 | 06:38 PM
#1363
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
It *IS* tough to get hired at a major if you're non-current.
It *ISN'T* tough to get hired at a regional if you're non-current.
Second sentence fixes the first problem.
Guys with mil/121 experience are getting a lot of attention. By getting a regional job after the military you check off several squares -
121 experience
121 training
new type rating
recent vetting by new employer
new training cycle (some carriers require, or have required, new training event within X years)
currency(!) if they've been in a staff job
And the reality is the candidate will be better off for the interviews, sim checks, and training, at his final choice if he's put in foot into the civilian 121 market.
I *specifically* asked one of the decision makers "do they have to be current, and in a flying job, to get hired?" Answer was no... "but the next question will be 'when was the last time you were a professional pilot?' And why should I hire you when thousands of guys are current and applying?"
It *ISN'T* tough to get hired at a regional if you're non-current.
Second sentence fixes the first problem.
Guys with mil/121 experience are getting a lot of attention. By getting a regional job after the military you check off several squares -
121 experience
121 training
new type rating
recent vetting by new employer
new training cycle (some carriers require, or have required, new training event within X years)
currency(!) if they've been in a staff job
And the reality is the candidate will be better off for the interviews, sim checks, and training, at his final choice if he's put in foot into the civilian 121 market.
I *specifically* asked one of the decision makers "do they have to be current, and in a flying job, to get hired?" Answer was no... "but the next question will be 'when was the last time you were a professional pilot?' And why should I hire you when thousands of guys are current and applying?"
Thanks
05-21-2015 | 03:54 AM
#1365
New Hire
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: FO
It *IS* tough to get hired at a major if you're non-current.
It *ISN'T* tough to get hired at a regional if you're non-current.
Second sentence fixes the first problem.
Guys with mil/121 experience are getting a lot of attention. By getting a regional job after the military you check off several squares -
121 experience
121 training
new type rating
recent vetting by new employer
new training cycle (some carriers require, or have required, new training event within X years)
currency(!) if they've been in a staff job
And the reality is the candidate will be better off for the interviews, sim checks, and training, at his final choice if he's put in foot into the civilian 121 market.
I *specifically* asked one of the decision makers "do they have to be current, and in a flying job, to get hired?" Answer was no... "but the next question will be 'when was the last time you were a professional pilot?' And why should I hire you when thousands of guys are current and applying?"
It *ISN'T* tough to get hired at a regional if you're non-current.
Second sentence fixes the first problem.
Guys with mil/121 experience are getting a lot of attention. By getting a regional job after the military you check off several squares -
121 experience
121 training
new type rating
recent vetting by new employer
new training cycle (some carriers require, or have required, new training event within X years)
currency(!) if they've been in a staff job
And the reality is the candidate will be better off for the interviews, sim checks, and training, at his final choice if he's put in foot into the civilian 121 market.
I *specifically* asked one of the decision makers "do they have to be current, and in a flying job, to get hired?" Answer was no... "but the next question will be 'when was the last time you were a professional pilot?' And why should I hire you when thousands of guys are current and applying?"
05-21-2015 | 04:47 AM
#1366
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 0
I once gave A330 OE to a FO at NWA who had not flown an airplane for 13 yrs. ( 10 yrs DC-10 SO, 2yrs ALPA and 1 yr. Medical) He could barely talk on the radio but made it through with lots of extra time. He was a great guy who worked hard and knew he was behind the 8 ball.
05-21-2015 | 04:51 AM
#1367
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 558
Likes: 7
At my regional I've flown with several First Officers recently that have notified me that they are newly qualified, but also already have a class date at a major. Literally just checking the boxes after being hired at a 121 regional was all that was needed for these former military pilots, including ones whose last assignment was a desk. I'd say it is a pretty effective approach.
05-21-2015 | 06:03 AM
#1368
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 5,816
Likes: 5
From: retired 767(dl)
Currency is nothing more than another discriminator. It's like needing to have 20/20 vision to fly for the military or get hired by an airline 30 yrs. ago, having a college degree, etc. Once in, none of that matters.
I once gave A330 OE to a FO at NWA who had not flown an airplane for 13 yrs. ( 10 yrs DC-10 SO, 2yrs ALPA and 1 yr. Medical) He could barely talk on the radio but made it through with lots of extra time. He was a great guy who worked hard and knew he was behind the 8 ball.
I once gave A330 OE to a FO at NWA who had not flown an airplane for 13 yrs. ( 10 yrs DC-10 SO, 2yrs ALPA and 1 yr. Medical) He could barely talk on the radio but made it through with lots of extra time. He was a great guy who worked hard and knew he was behind the 8 ball.
05-21-2015 | 07:23 AM
#1369
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,831
Likes: 172
From: window seat
Currency is nothing more than another discriminator. It's like needing to have 20/20 vision to fly for the military or get hired by an airline 30 yrs. ago, having a college degree, etc. Once in, none of that matters.
I once gave A330 OE to a FO at NWA who had not flown an airplane for 13 yrs. ( 10 yrs DC-10 SO, 2yrs ALPA and 1 yr. Medical) He could barely talk on the radio but made it through with lots of extra time. He was a great guy who worked hard and knew he was behind the 8 ball.
I once gave A330 OE to a FO at NWA who had not flown an airplane for 13 yrs. ( 10 yrs DC-10 SO, 2yrs ALPA and 1 yr. Medical) He could barely talk on the radio but made it through with lots of extra time. He was a great guy who worked hard and knew he was behind the 8 ball.
Companies don't want to hire lots of new hire pilots that are stastically going to need lots of extra time and are going to be behind the 8 ball. They will usually hire a few though, and carry the majority of them through. But its never going to be the norm and that's completely as it should be. If someone wants a multimillion dollar career with your company its really not too much to ask that they do some grunt work for a few months knocking the rust off.
That can be done a number of ways from job hopping at an airline that's easier to get on with to getting a type rating to as little as doing a BFR/IPC refresher (probably a bit more than the couple hours minimum…don't you hate it when people treat the least amount of training allowable by law as a syllabus goal?).
Being non current (regardless of how you define that, from 91+ days to 10+ years) is rightfully considered a negative. Its also rightfully hardly ever considered to be an insurmountable negative, and to any extent its considered a negative, its really not that hard to mitigate it and get hired anyway.
Like someone else said, there's plenty of "desk jockeys" that either found a way to stay current or quickly got re-current to get the job they wanted.
05-21-2015 | 08:00 AM
#1370
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 0
We can't really say currency is "nothing more than a discriminator", and then go on to cite an example of someone 13 years non current (although 10 of those years on the flight deck plumbing) who still needed "lots of extra time" and knew he was "behind the 8 ball".
Companies don't want to hire lots of new hire pilots that are stastically going to need lots of extra time and are going to be behind the 8 ball. They will usually hire a few though, and carry the majority of them through. But its never going to be the norm and that's completely as it should be. If someone wants a multimillion dollar career with your company its really not too much to ask that they do some grunt work for a few months knocking the rust off.
That can be done a number of ways from job hopping at an airline that's easier to get on with to getting a type rating to as little as doing a BFR/IPC refresher (probably a bit more than the couple hours minimum…don't you hate it when people treat the least amount of training allowable by law as a syllabus goal?).
Being non current (regardless of how you define that, from 91+ days to 10+ years) is rightfully considered a negative. Its also rightfully hardly ever considered to be an insurmountable negative, and to any extent its considered a negative, its really not that hard to mitigate it and get hired anyway.
Like someone else said, there's plenty of "desk jockeys" that either found a way to stay current or quickly got re-current to get the job they wanted.
Companies don't want to hire lots of new hire pilots that are stastically going to need lots of extra time and are going to be behind the 8 ball. They will usually hire a few though, and carry the majority of them through. But its never going to be the norm and that's completely as it should be. If someone wants a multimillion dollar career with your company its really not too much to ask that they do some grunt work for a few months knocking the rust off.
That can be done a number of ways from job hopping at an airline that's easier to get on with to getting a type rating to as little as doing a BFR/IPC refresher (probably a bit more than the couple hours minimum…don't you hate it when people treat the least amount of training allowable by law as a syllabus goal?).
Being non current (regardless of how you define that, from 91+ days to 10+ years) is rightfully considered a negative. Its also rightfully hardly ever considered to be an insurmountable negative, and to any extent its considered a negative, its really not that hard to mitigate it and get hired anyway.
Like someone else said, there's plenty of "desk jockeys" that either found a way to stay current or quickly got re-current to get the job they wanted.
In a previous life, at another carrier, I did a study about who was more likely to successfully complete a training program within the footprint. It turned out that one who had been thru more recent training cycles did better than those who had not, regardless of flight time/experience.
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