Pre 9/11 payscales
03-01-2007, 12:20 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 318
****
Originally Posted by CE750
You have got to be kidding me? right? Most "doc's" aren't saving lives.. family practice Docs like my friend who makes (after insurance costs) close to $200K/yr working 5 days a week from 9-5 are dealing with colds, sore throats and fevers most of the time.. he's not some world class surgeon, those guys get paid $300-500K/yr for that kind of work.
Get real.. most "Docs" are just preventative health care providers.
I can't believe you're a pilot and you think so little of your work... Sad that Fedex hires pilots like that for that kind of money.
Get real.. most "Docs" are just preventative health care providers.
I can't believe you're a pilot and you think so little of your work... Sad that Fedex hires pilots like that for that kind of money.
Where did I say "I think being a pilot is not a professional career?" Am I missing something? I'll say it again---I think MOST of the industry is under paid. We deserve more for what we do. But when you compare our career to that of Doctor---you lose me. Get off your high horse and get real dude.
03-01-2007, 12:32 PM
#52
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Aces II & Civilian HUD x2
Posts: 75
Jolly,
We can tell him to become a "Flight Surgeon", oh wait... They are some kind of doctor, not a pilot.
Sometimes I feel like a Doctor, when I have to perform "surgery", trying to put a Maverick through a window, or an LGB on a target while not killing friendlies, or what about not shooting your bro' in an ACM engagement, or strafing the wrong target, or just basically not hitting your wingman while flying formation. Discipline... my friend, two different kind of professions.
Never mind, I guess I got side tracked. Let me go back to reality...
Let's put it in perspective, How much does a doctor pays to come into our office (ie. plane ticket) vs. How much we pay to go in their offices? Ching-Ching!!! $$$
Have anybody seen insurance premiums lately?
We can tell him to become a "Flight Surgeon", oh wait... They are some kind of doctor, not a pilot.
Sometimes I feel like a Doctor, when I have to perform "surgery", trying to put a Maverick through a window, or an LGB on a target while not killing friendlies, or what about not shooting your bro' in an ACM engagement, or strafing the wrong target, or just basically not hitting your wingman while flying formation. Discipline... my friend, two different kind of professions.
Never mind, I guess I got side tracked. Let me go back to reality...
Let's put it in perspective, How much does a doctor pays to come into our office (ie. plane ticket) vs. How much we pay to go in their offices? Ching-Ching!!! $$$
Have anybody seen insurance premiums lately?
03-01-2007, 12:36 PM
#53
With The Resistance
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Posts: 6,191
A comparison of different professions and their rates of compensation based on our judgement of what is "fair" is always going to suffer under a realistic examination. There are people making vast sums because they have the superhuman ability to hit a golfball well or put a basketball into a hoop. Does that have a real tangible benefit to humanity? Possibly.
The real decider in most every example we may think of is that steady hidden hand of the marketplace. Whatever you may believe, however you may view the worth of anothers work, the pay is decided by the market. It is obvious that in certain cases the market is more open to entry by those desiring to do so, but this isn't the norm.
I imagine Tiger makes more than the GNP of some small countries because it is known that he can sell a lot of golf clubs and most anything else. There aren't many Tigers. Pilots have seen a glut in the market for their skills and like aerospace engineers when many defense contracts are killed, they end up without as many job opportunities as they would like.
The real decider in most every example we may think of is that steady hidden hand of the marketplace. Whatever you may believe, however you may view the worth of anothers work, the pay is decided by the market. It is obvious that in certain cases the market is more open to entry by those desiring to do so, but this isn't the norm.
I imagine Tiger makes more than the GNP of some small countries because it is known that he can sell a lot of golf clubs and most anything else. There aren't many Tigers. Pilots have seen a glut in the market for their skills and like aerospace engineers when many defense contracts are killed, they end up without as many job opportunities as they would like.
Last edited by jungle; 03-01-2007 at 12:48 PM.
03-01-2007, 01:05 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 318
Let's get back on track
Originally Posted by Don Q
Jolly,
We can tell him to become a "Flight Surgeon", oh wait... They are some kind of doctor, not a pilot.
Sometimes I feel like a Doctor, when I have to perform "surgery", trying to put a Maverick through a window, or an LGB on a target while not killing friendlies, or what about not shooting your bro' in an ACM engagement, or strafing the wrong target, or just basically not hitting your wingman while flying formation. Discipline... my friend, two different kind of professions.
Never mind, I guess I got side tracked. Let me go back to reality...
Let's put it in perspective, How much does a doctor pays to come into our office (ie. plane ticket) vs. How much we pay to go in their offices? Ching-Ching!!! $$$
Have anybody seen insurance premiums lately?
We can tell him to become a "Flight Surgeon", oh wait... They are some kind of doctor, not a pilot.
Sometimes I feel like a Doctor, when I have to perform "surgery", trying to put a Maverick through a window, or an LGB on a target while not killing friendlies, or what about not shooting your bro' in an ACM engagement, or strafing the wrong target, or just basically not hitting your wingman while flying formation. Discipline... my friend, two different kind of professions.
Never mind, I guess I got side tracked. Let me go back to reality...
Let's put it in perspective, How much does a doctor pays to come into our office (ie. plane ticket) vs. How much we pay to go in their offices? Ching-Ching!!! $$$
Have anybody seen insurance premiums lately?
How's about we get back on track here---I think we all agree that the industry is under paid for the most part. It needs to get fixed. It's not like anyone can do this job. It takes a lot of training and experience. I'm not trying to bring down "our profession"---I'm simply saying quit making outragous statements about "look what he's making." Getting back to the original thread here---will we ever get back to pre-911 pay rates? I hope so, but I'm guessing probably not. I hope I'm wrong.
03-01-2007, 02:56 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 345
It is funny to see how many people on this board think of themselves as gods because they fly a 777 or whatever. There is a difference between SAVING LIVES and preventing an accident. A doctors job is to actualy SAVE lives! dont pull the sh*t about oh well family doctors dont do anything...... ya right they only have to be able to pick out illnesses that if go unchecked could kill you! There is a reason why Doctor is the most respected job/proffesion in the world.
Do not ever compare well I flew from Newyork to London today and we didnt all die to a doctor saving someone or diagnosing someone with an illness so they can get treated. Its not the same thing.
Yes pilots need to be paid more and pilots do have a huge responsibility and deserve more respect then the public gives the proffesion now.... but that still doesnt make it the same as a doctor.
Do not ever compare well I flew from Newyork to London today and we didnt all die to a doctor saving someone or diagnosing someone with an illness so they can get treated. Its not the same thing.
Yes pilots need to be paid more and pilots do have a huge responsibility and deserve more respect then the public gives the proffesion now.... but that still doesnt make it the same as a doctor.
03-01-2007, 05:09 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 840
Originally Posted by JollyF15
My main point was that to compare being a DR to being a Pilot is apples and oranges.
I quit flying F-15's because I retired, it was time to move on based on my the needs of my family. I was paid very well when I left, can't argue with you on that. When I first started in the F-4 as a 2Lt in Korea, I was making less than 10K a year. But the job was so awesome I would have done it for beer money. It was never about the money.
I too feel that most of the industry is under paid. I think that you and I are paid well at FedEx, but that's another discussion. I never said this is not a profession. The point I was trying to make is that you can't compare the profession of a pilot to that of a Dr. ----Doc's get paid to save lives, we get paid to do a very difficult job well. Are peoples lives on the line? In some cases yes, but it's not a life and death job on a daily basis.
I quit flying F-15's because I retired, it was time to move on based on my the needs of my family. I was paid very well when I left, can't argue with you on that. When I first started in the F-4 as a 2Lt in Korea, I was making less than 10K a year. But the job was so awesome I would have done it for beer money. It was never about the money.
I too feel that most of the industry is under paid. I think that you and I are paid well at FedEx, but that's another discussion. I never said this is not a profession. The point I was trying to make is that you can't compare the profession of a pilot to that of a Dr. ----Doc's get paid to save lives, we get paid to do a very difficult job well. Are peoples lives on the line? In some cases yes, but it's not a life and death job on a daily basis.
Hey Jolly. Sorry to bring up the previous posts but if you'll read just above your post you will see that.....most doc's ain't savin' lives brother. Most are checking tonsils, eyeballs, ears, whatever and spend most of their day doing boring ****. Let's not sell it as if all doc's are in the ER or doing neurosurgery. This is like saying all Pilots in the AF know how to fly eagle's. A little insulting when you think about it that way. I am sure I don't know eagles as well as you. As I am sure I know more about bombers. I have respect for doc's as pros but know more than for my fellow aviators who have worked and studied long and hard to get where they are. Just a thought.
03-01-2007, 05:17 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 840
Wait...I think I have a solution for the problem. Doc's charge twice as much as insurance will pay to show a loss on the business each year. I.E. huge write offs. Maybe we could state that we are only compensated for $150 when we would charge $300 an hour. Might take some working. I see a lot of write offs in my future.
03-01-2007, 06:00 PM
#58
On Reserve
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 16
You need to get off the Doctor comparison, it really isn’t valid. “I’ve got 150 people’s lives in my hand” BFD! Just think what a Marine E-2 in Iraq is making. The truth is, you get paid what you negotiated, Period. Over the past four years every ALPA carrier has made threats to take action to counter the pay cuts and the only one to benefit so far is management. Salaries will get restored at “the table” not by comparing ourselves to other professions
03-01-2007, 11:05 PM
#59
Indian Takeout Driver
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: FAR part 347 (91+121+135)
Posts: 1,566
Originally Posted by Linebacker35
It is funny to see how many people on this board think of themselves as gods because they fly a 777 or whatever. There is a difference between SAVING LIVES and preventing an accident. A doctors job is to actualy SAVE lives! dont pull the sh*t about oh well family doctors dont do anything...... ya right they only have to be able to pick out illnesses that if go unchecked could kill you! There is a reason why Doctor is the most respected job/proffesion in the world.
Do not ever compare well I flew from Newyork to London today and we didnt all die to a doctor saving someone or diagnosing someone with an illness so they can get treated. Its not the same thing.
Yes pilots need to be paid more and pilots do have a huge responsibility and deserve more respect then the public gives the proffesion now.... but that still doesnt make it the same as a doctor.
Do not ever compare well I flew from Newyork to London today and we didnt all die to a doctor saving someone or diagnosing someone with an illness so they can get treated. Its not the same thing.
Yes pilots need to be paid more and pilots do have a huge responsibility and deserve more respect then the public gives the proffesion now.... but that still doesnt make it the same as a doctor.
HELLO! And Mr. F15 too. listen up..
NOT ALL DOCTORS SAVE LIVES.. There are Dentists, Family practice, and specialists that work in preventative health more than anything else.. WE'RE NOT COMPARING OURSELVES TO BRAIN SURGEONS! IDIOTS!
WAKE THE HECK UP. AND READ THE DAMN POSTS!
Last edited by CE750; 03-01-2007 at 11:10 PM.
03-02-2007, 04:54 AM
#60
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Doctors V Pilots
I think the real issue is that it takes 8 years of increasingly competitive and expensive college to be followed by more years if internship and specialization to become a doctor. Some become GP's and take care of sniffles and sneezes others move into high dollar plastic surgery. What ever the specialty it takes someone with extreme dedication, intelligence and the willingness to stick fingers places most would never wish to go.
A pilot by comparison can become licensed to fly an airliner in 6 months and doesn't really require any college. A pilot career is doomed to be worth far less and is really not even close to a doctors job. It would be like comparing a garbageman with an accountant.
I have a paramedic friend who considered becoming a professional pilot. He choose to take a 2 year course to become a Physician's Assistant instead. He started his first job last fall and as a new hire started out making 85K. In a few yeas he will top out at 120K. Medicine is a growth industry and skilled workers are in high demand.
SkyHigh
A pilot by comparison can become licensed to fly an airliner in 6 months and doesn't really require any college. A pilot career is doomed to be worth far less and is really not even close to a doctors job. It would be like comparing a garbageman with an accountant.
I have a paramedic friend who considered becoming a professional pilot. He choose to take a 2 year course to become a Physician's Assistant instead. He started his first job last fall and as a new hire started out making 85K. In a few yeas he will top out at 120K. Medicine is a growth industry and skilled workers are in high demand.
SkyHigh
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