JiffyLube

One observation on the outside looking in...

The NWA pilots are always are negative about everything they say here, they complain about mgt, they complain the negotiations, now they complain about the lack there off. The Delta pilots have not been blasting their mgt they seem happy with their team, they seem to have a relatively positive outlook on everything.

I actual envy the DAL pilots, things are ugly in my world and getting worse. If I were at DAL I would not want the doom and gloom of the NWA posters on this website destroying my happy little world.

The NWA pilots should remember it is THEIR mgt that is desperate to sell, they went back to DAL to bail them out. Delta will be the finally product. Delta mgt cannot neg with NWA ALPA so they will neg with who they can DALALPA. NWA had their chance, hopefully they with get another, but doesn't look like anytime soon.

CVG767A

I suggest that we wait until we hear something from our respective MECs. (I know, there's not much fun in that.)What was said in the newspaper article in question may bear only a casual relationship to the truth, as is usually the case.

That being said, I'm sure that the managements of both companies are doing whatever they can to move this merger forward. The combined company, with 6 billion in cash, would be a powerhouse.

CVG767A

Not really. NWA ALPA walked away from the latest talks.

Superpilot92

Well it was DAL who came to NWA first. NWA went back to DAL for a number of possible reasons, steenlands buyout, nwa alpa went back because they knew all along it was going to be coming back regardless and they might as well continue to negotiate. Its not so much doom and gloom at NWA in fact its opposite however from what i have seen its most nwa pilots dont have a clouded version of mgmt. I recently came from a "good" regional with "good" mgmt however i still dont and didnt trust them. They will cut your pay at any moment if they think they can get away with it.

I will admit though it appears the Koolaid at DAL is flowing

Superpilot92

I agree.

DelDah Capt

Super Pilot,

The only thing saving us from the scenario you wrote about is the Fragmentation clauses in Delta's contract. NWA does not have these protections in their contract. The 'holding' company with two separate subsidiaries is one of the proposals before the DAL Board in the latest merger push. As I said, the DAL contract prohibits this and DALPA has leverage if they want to go this route.

There are really three ways this merger could go:

-We could come up with a premerger seniority list and a negotiated contract with all the pay, work rule, and benefits goodies for all. This method has been tried and did not produce results. For better or worse, that ship has sailed and it ain't coming back.

-The merger could be forced upon us in the traditional sense. We would battle out a post merger seniority list (possibly by arbitration), and nobody gets any pay, work rule, or benefit improvements.

-The merger could take the form of holding company/subsidiary so that the combined entity could take advantage of some (but not all) synergies. DALPA could use it's leverage to negotiate some pay/work rule/benefit/equity while limiting the amount of whipsawing that the holding company could do (remember, DALPA has language that prohibits this scenario from even happening). The hope would then be that a merged seniority list can be accomplished and then NWA would get access to the negotiated 'goodies'


I confess that I am uncomfortable about using incentives to get NWA to back off the arbitration route and negotiate a merged seniority list (I have no doubt that you would trade the word 'pressure' or 'intimidation' for incentives and I understand that). However, option A is gone forever. If they decide to do option B, there's very little we can do about it and we all lose out on any improvements. Option C is the only case where we still hold some leverage to get something for the pilots out of this deal. Unfortunately, NWA pilots have little to no leverage in the two remaining options. If the pilots are to play any role and reap any benefits, it has to be with option C. I know you look at option C as the DAL pilots 'screwing' the NWA pilots, but it's the only way we can preserve any kind of improvements for the Combined pilot group while we wait on a negotiated list. There's a lot more I want to know about this option before I even consider buying off on it, but if you believe that the current economic environment means a merger is inevitable, I'm more inclined to go with the plan that gives pilots some control over it.

CVG767A

Do you know that for a fact? The only thing I know about this is what's in the WSJ, and we all know how accurate their reporting is. Could it be that management came to DALPA? If so, do you know what response they got? Could it be that there isn't a conspiracy against the NWA guys?

AV8ER13

Why do you think NWA pilots have no leverage, and why do you think that DALPA should do the neg. for both pilot groups. By agreeing to this you would be "screwing" the other pilot group, whether you think that or not.

newKnow

Jiffy,

I read a lot of the post on here. I will admit that NWA pilots complain about management. But, can you show me where NWA pilots were complaining about the "negotiations" or the "lack there of?"

Where did we complain about the negotiations?
Where have we complained about the lack there of?

From what I've seen, for the most part, is that we have taken a "wait and see attitide."

Doom and gloom? Last year? Maybe. This year?

Feel free to clip and paste.

Also, what exactly does NWA management need DAL to bail them out from?

Or, are you just writing to be writing?

S3toHerk

NWA pilot union traded work rules and pay to keep their pension. Delta pilots lost their pensions, got better pay and work rules then NWA, and the senior pilots at Delta left in order to get cash out of their pensions before they lost it. This caused NWA pilots to be senior by DOH. Now NWA pilot's union want their cake and eat it too. NWA pension, Delta's pay and work rules, and seniority too. Delta is not getting their pensions back. Delta pilots are not trying to "screw" NWA pilots. They have paid for their seniority with their pension.

Relative seniority is the only acceptable way to merge the seniority list. That's how Delta merged with Western and Pan Am. That's the only way Delta pilot's union will agree with a merger with NWA (I said agree, not allow). NWA and Delta are going to merge if the powers at be decide to. If the two unions do not agree to the deal and we merge anyway, the contract that Delta and Delta ALPA agreed to becomes null and void. We will all lose the good deal.

I am curious. Does anyone at NWA feel this way too?