Just when you thought it was over, NWA tries to put it NWA/DAL together again.
SubscribeGuys, I think you are losing sight of the big picture. Yes, if the BOD's want the merger to continue, IT WILL happen. But just because the companies merge, it doesn't mean that the pilots need to rush and accept whatever is thrown their way. The BOD's are getting nervous and trying to play hardball to see who will blink first. They just want their bonuses.
Not that you need to be told it, but: GUYS, STICK TO YOUR GUNS!! Don't let them stick it to you, fight the powers that be as long as you can.
Its time for pilots everywhere to make gains and reverse all these givebacks, even if oil goes to $200/barrel. Here's how: pass along your cost of doing business to your customers!! Everything else has gone up, why not ticket prices? Why should it come at the cost of your paycheck or your seniority?
Good luck everyone.
Not that you need to be told it, but: GUYS, STICK TO YOUR GUNS!! Don't let them stick it to you, fight the powers that be as long as you can.
Its time for pilots everywhere to make gains and reverse all these givebacks, even if oil goes to $200/barrel. Here's how: pass along your cost of doing business to your customers!! Everything else has gone up, why not ticket prices? Why should it come at the cost of your paycheck or your seniority?
Good luck everyone.
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I know you are against this merger but comparing it with America West attempts last year you are mixing apples and oranges.
And you used to be against the merger. After the pilot return train left the station you belatedly asked for a ticket. Now NWA management is doing the same. Thanks, I'll pass. I'll take standalone with all the downside risks versus what Steenland is offering. And I notice you didn't address the UAL/AAA merger attempts.Originally Posted by Opus
I know you are against this merger but comparing it with America West attempts last year you are mixing apples and oranges.
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Minor correction. It should read AirFrance/KLM had fronted cash (your number is wrong, btw) to help the deal. Your assertion that it is still available in this environment may not be correct. Also, how do you know that the DAL BOD wants this to happen without ALPA on board?Originally Posted by Opus
First, KLM/Air France have fronted 1B to help subsidize this deal plus there are numerous other investors that are pushing for it as well. Not to mention that both BODs want this deal to happen.
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Actually, I'd rather fight Steenland and possible arbitration rather than see the pilot returns that we'd negotiated evaporate for NWA management's payday. No hard feelings. I was for this end to end merger with the negotiated pilot returns in the beginning; after watching this show play out I'll pass on the opportunity to share in the redtail love.Originally Posted by Opus
Since there are many forces that are desirous for this to happen the respective pilot groups should refocus their efforts and accept the fact that this may happen whether we want it to or not. Ergo, bashing each other is a waste of time whereas recognizing that this may happen and work toward an equitable agreement would be more productive.
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capn, you guys are a tough group! Just when you get me to agree with your position, you tell me to take it easy!Originally Posted by capncrunch
Easy, SLOWPLAY, Easy....
Slowplay,
I have explained several posts ago why I changed my opinion on this merger and that well over three weeks ago. But please explain to me why you are so against this merger? So, here you go I have just given you an opportunity to vent how NWA has no social redeeming traits and how your future is going to be so great standing alone. Let's hear it.
I have explained several posts ago why I changed my opinion on this merger and that well over three weeks ago. But please explain to me why you are so against this merger? So, here you go I have just given you an opportunity to vent how NWA has no social redeeming traits and how your future is going to be so great standing alone. Let's hear it.
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But please explain to me why you are so against this merger? So, here you go I have just given you an opportunity to vent how NWA has no social redeeming traits and how your future is going to be so great standing alone. Let's hear it.
If you'll remember, I never said that my future is going to be so great. I said that I'd take the standalone plan with all the downside risks over Steenland's plan of reduced compensation for the pilots and a forced deal that includes arbitration.Originally Posted by Opus
But please explain to me why you are so against this merger? So, here you go I have just given you an opportunity to vent how NWA has no social redeeming traits and how your future is going to be so great standing alone. Let's hear it.
It serves no purpose to vent. I hope NWA does well. I'd just like you to keep your NWA your NWA, at least for the time being. After both airlines have restructured (again) maybe we can get together with a more realistic perspective on what each party brings to the table.
Somehow I doubt that, though.
Choice is an illusion created by those who have power for those who don't.
Unless you:
1. Have a seat on the BOD
2. Are CEO of DAL or NWA
3. Are a major shareholder of DAL or NWA
4. Are a major creditor of DAL or NWA
5. Are The President of the United States
6. Are The Attorney General or,
7. Someone who has the ear of any of the above
You have no choice in whether or not the merger goes through and no one is listening.
The previous smoke and mirrors show that we saw --"Hey, pilot's. Is it ok with you for us to merge?"-- was just an illusion.
They can ram this merger down out throats. It's their company, I know I don't own either one. (If I did, I'd be broke)
We are about to learn about cause and effect. They will cause the merger and it will effect us somehow.
If we had a legal basis to turn it down, or vote no or strike or something, then maybe. But we don't.
I would suggest to the Executives though that they not push us too far or else the summer of 2007 could return in 2008.
We'll see what happens...
Good luck to us all.
Unless you:
1. Have a seat on the BOD
2. Are CEO of DAL or NWA
3. Are a major shareholder of DAL or NWA
4. Are a major creditor of DAL or NWA
5. Are The President of the United States
6. Are The Attorney General or,
7. Someone who has the ear of any of the above
You have no choice in whether or not the merger goes through and no one is listening.
The previous smoke and mirrors show that we saw --"Hey, pilot's. Is it ok with you for us to merge?"-- was just an illusion.
They can ram this merger down out throats. It's their company, I know I don't own either one. (If I did, I'd be broke)
We are about to learn about cause and effect. They will cause the merger and it will effect us somehow.
If we had a legal basis to turn it down, or vote no or strike or something, then maybe. But we don't.
I would suggest to the Executives though that they not push us too far or else the summer of 2007 could return in 2008.
We'll see what happens...
Good luck to us all.
Quote:
Unless you:
1. Have a seat on the BOD
2. Are CEO of DAL or NWA
3. Are a major shareholder of DAL or NWA
4. Are a major creditor of DAL or NWA
5. Are The President of the United States
6. Are The Attorney General or,
7. Someone who has the ear of any of the above
You have no choice in whether or not the merger goes through and no one is listening.
We'll see. Remember, the only reason that NWAALPA even had input into this potential transaction was because of the work of the Delta MEC.Originally Posted by newKnow
Unless you:
1. Have a seat on the BOD
2. Are CEO of DAL or NWA
3. Are a major shareholder of DAL or NWA
4. Are a major creditor of DAL or NWA
5. Are The President of the United States
6. Are The Attorney General or,
7. Someone who has the ear of any of the above
You have no choice in whether or not the merger goes through and no one is listening.
BTW, DALPA has a seat on the DAL board. While it currently doesn't vote, it has full access except for the compensation committee.
DAL employees own 14% of the company.
Hedge funds make up less than 15% of ownership
Over 50% of institutional ownership has a long term view (JPMorgan, Fidelity, Lord Abbett, etc)
ALPA was the second largest unsecured creditor in the DAL bankruptcy.
DALPA has a track record over the last 2 years with the management and creditors. We do have their ear (remember LCC?).
While this DAL/NWA deal may not be over, the cooperative phase in that potential transaction by the Delta MEC is probably over. The opportunity for up front returns has been squandered, disproportionately increasing the risk to Delta pilots versus the standalone plan. If the boards try to go through with the deal, they will do it with full knowledge of the increased risk DALPA has demonstrated it can bring to the economics of the deal. Should DALPA or NWALPA oppose the deal, the boards will have to decide if that risk is worth the effort to merge while going into a down cycle.
My bet is that unless external factors change, the DAL board will decide against it.
[quote=newKnow;351336]Choice is an illusion created by those who have power for those who don't.
Unless you:
1. Have a seat on the BOD
2. Are CEO of DAL or NWA
3. Are a major shareholder of DAL or NWA
4. Are a major creditor of DAL or NWA
5. Are The President of the United States
6. Are The Attorney General or,
7. Someone who has the ear of any of the above
New,
Don't forget its an election year. A lot of Senators and Congressmen are stated to be against this deal-if labor is not on board I believe they will tap into this potential sorce of help. Labor may not have the power to stop a deal but they can sure throw a wrench in the works.
Another thing - it would appear to me that the stock price is so low that the big money hedge funds will be underwater even if a merger goes through. If they want to make $ on this deal they may be in for longer then they hoped. Off course the $ will immediately flow to management.
Last thing - oil is around $110/barrel now. What is the price of oil for a merged airline - correct around $110/barrel, my point is we are not merging with Exxon - it will take years to recoupe the one time consolodation costs which will run in the billions and come due immediately. Reservation systems, computers, lawyer costs, maintenance and flight manuals, moving headquarters, transferring personnel, painting aircraft, combining supply inventories, moving re-equipping gates, uniforms, and did I mention lawyer costs? All of these bills will be due immediately, oil will still cost a ton, and hopefully over the years pricing power will start to rise - if Virgin etc dont jump in to fill any void. Lets just hope the deal goes away for good.
Scoop
Unless you:
1. Have a seat on the BOD
2. Are CEO of DAL or NWA
3. Are a major shareholder of DAL or NWA
4. Are a major creditor of DAL or NWA
5. Are The President of the United States
6. Are The Attorney General or,
7. Someone who has the ear of any of the above
New,
Don't forget its an election year. A lot of Senators and Congressmen are stated to be against this deal-if labor is not on board I believe they will tap into this potential sorce of help. Labor may not have the power to stop a deal but they can sure throw a wrench in the works.
Another thing - it would appear to me that the stock price is so low that the big money hedge funds will be underwater even if a merger goes through. If they want to make $ on this deal they may be in for longer then they hoped. Off course the $ will immediately flow to management.
Last thing - oil is around $110/barrel now. What is the price of oil for a merged airline - correct around $110/barrel, my point is we are not merging with Exxon - it will take years to recoupe the one time consolodation costs which will run in the billions and come due immediately. Reservation systems, computers, lawyer costs, maintenance and flight manuals, moving headquarters, transferring personnel, painting aircraft, combining supply inventories, moving re-equipping gates, uniforms, and did I mention lawyer costs? All of these bills will be due immediately, oil will still cost a ton, and hopefully over the years pricing power will start to rise - if Virgin etc dont jump in to fill any void. Lets just hope the deal goes away for good.
Scoop
Deleted... I sure hope this isn't happening.
